Richard Moore

Bcc: Loie Hayes (South End Press), Jerry Fresia

From: Loie Hayes
Organization: South End Press, www.southendpress.org
To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••>
CC: Jerry Fresia
Subject: Re: cj#1130,rn> Cyberjournal: Fall Schedule of Events


I wanted to correct the impression that Fresia's book is only available
from Amazon.com (you write below: "This book, still available by special
order from Amazon,"). Folks can also order the book from SEP
(1-800-533-8478 [1-800-leftist]) or by asking their local bookstore to
order it from SEP or any of their normal book-ordering channels. 

Sounds like the Korten article will be a great addition to the site.
Looking forward to your updates.
best wishes,
Loie Hayes

From: •••@••.•••
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:05:10 EDT
To: •••@••.•••
MIME-Version: 1.0

Dear reader,

The Emperor's Clothes website has been shut down by
politically motivated hackers. We hope to be up and running
soon.  We are sending emails to many people in the hope that
you will forward them to counter this effort to silence our
views, which are mainly locked out of the Western media but
available on the Internet.  Please forward this to any lists
you can.  Thank you.

Best regards, Jared Israel, editor, Emperor's Clothes

URL for this article is


www.tenc.net [Emperor's Clothes]

On May 17th, the Yugoslav government closed Studio B,
controlled by Vuk Draskovic's Serbian Renewal Party in
Belgrade. The charge: that Studio B Television "has been
calling for armed terrorist and criminal actions against the
Republic of Serbia and its citizens." Since the
controversial Radio B292 used space at Studio B, B292 was
effectively closed as well.

Some said that the charges were fabricated, that this was a
terrible attack on free speech. Were they right? Did the
station represent an attempt at free journalism, stifled by
heavy-handed bureaucrats?

Emperor's Clothes published two articles by geopolitical
analyst Paul Treanor which argued, with documentation, that
Radio B292 was in fact controlled by powerful Western
interests which aimed to bring Yugoslavia down.

Shortly after Studio B was closed, Emperor's Clothes editor
Jared Israel tracked down B292 staff members at a temporary
office in Belgrade. He interviewed two people, Gordan
Paunovic, who ran B292's web page, and Sanda Savic, the news
editor. The interviews were an attempt to shed light on the
charges raised by Mr.. Treanor. They relate directly to the
question: Is the Serbian opposition in fact funded by the
U.S. government as well as private agencies, such as the
Soros Foundation, with which the U.S. government is linked?
This has direct bearing on the charge, which we have raised,
that the U.S. government is meddling in the most extreme way
in the Yugoslav elections.

Interview with Gordan Paunovicm webmaster for B292.
Conducted by Jared Israel, editor www.tenc.net

Jared: Why did the government shut down Studio B?

Gordan Paunovic: The main accusation was that they called
for an armed response to overthrow the government

Jared: Is that true?

Paunovic: No, of course not. On the 13th of May you had a
rally on a mountain over there and you had these people who
shouted "Uprising! Uprising!" And they had coverage of both
rallies. So if you think that's a call for uprising -

[Note: Subsequently I learned from a Montengran student
whose family has been involved in "upriings" for 200 years,
that while the term "uprising" might be taken as radical
chic in English, in Serbia it is associated with a bloody
history of anti-Turkish rebellions, a history with which
every Serbian child is familiar. It is therefore not a term
likely to be used casually.]

Jared: Well the news report I read in the West said that
guns were fired in the air and

Vuk Draskovic said, "Save your bullets, we're going to need
them." Doesn't that sound like a call for civil war and -

Paunovic: These are folklore events without any political
weight which are happening every year. It is the anniversary
of the Chetniks' uprising against the Nazi's in the Second
World War, on this mountain. It's a completely folklore
gathering. They always have guns.

Jared: But his comment? "Save your bullets we'll need them

Paunovic: Well then let them arrest Draskovic.

Jared: Well, they closed his Studio B...Tell me, is radio
B292 funded by George Soros?

Paunovic: Funded or founded?

Jared: Funded. Given money -

Paunovic: I think it happens quite often since 1992 but it's
not the only source of money. But I'm not the right person
to talk about this.

Jared: Do you know anything about -

Paunovic: There is a list of international foundations, not
only Soros who -

Jared: Like what else?

Paunovic: Press Now, from Holland, Royal Swedish Foundation
or something, Royal Netherlands Foundation.

Jared: Any in the US?

Paunovic: I guess so. I don't know the details. Those things
I know by chance. But Soros Foundation, yes, definitely, but
much, these days in last year or two years much less than

Jared: Any money coming from foundations in the US?

Paunovic: Probably, but I don't know which Foundations. I am
pretty much pissed off in putting this kind of
argumentation, like Soros equals B92. That really comes from
people who are not in a position to see what we are doing.
We will take money from anyone. To make a good production on
many levels, from radio, to TV and video productions to
Internet, Books, music. You need money.

Jared: I'll read you a statement from Gelbard. You know who
Gelbard is?

Paunovic: US Special Envoy to the Balkans.

Jared: Exactly. [Jared's note: actually prior to this
interview Gelbard had been moved to a new position,
Ambassador to Indonesia...] Do you know who Biden is? Sen.
Biden? This an exchange from the July 29th [1999] hearings
on supporting the so-called independent forces in Serbia.
The hearings took place the day after the Senate voted to
give 100,000,000 dollars to the 'independent' opposition.
This is Sen. Biden. He's been talking about the Ring
Sanitaire. [NATO has had a strategy of preventing Serbia
from interacting with European talking:

"SEN. BIDEN: "What can we do about inside Serbia? For
example Draskovic continues to deny access to Studio B,
which is supposedly, as I understand it -- he's not?

"MR. GELBARD: No, he's actually given access to Studio B --
excuse me; given access of Studio B to Radio B-92. And my
understanding is that Radio B-92, one of the independent
voices, has just reopened as Radio B-292. We want Draskovic
to open up Studio B to the rest of the opposition, and
that's a message that he'll be getting from us in the next
few days."

Jared resumes: That's how they talked about you. Any

Paunovic: Can you read it to me again?

Jared: I'll read it slowly. [Reads again]

Paunovic: Hmmm. I think it's, I mean I'm not getting clear
what do you want to point? What do you want to ask me? If
you want to think B92 is the voice of Gelbard or the
American administration, that has nothing to do with

Jared: Well let me ask you, does it sound like an
extraordinary situation for the government of a hostile
country to be discussing in detail the use of studio
facilities in the target country. And discussing it in
detail -

Paunovic: Well, to make such a conclusion that would mean
that you have a perfectly normal situation here. What you
have here is the most abnormal situation in the world which
has nothing to do with the US government.

Jared: You think the situation has nothing to do with the US

Paunovic: And another thing I don't like the way we are -
Like Robin Cook and Jamie Shea they made a huge damage to
our image when Robin Cooke said in a Press Conference which
was directly broadcast on CNN "You know we helped B92 to get
satellite access" and things like that. But you know I think
they will obviously help anyone who is spreading serious
criticism of the government. So what are we going to do
about it? If they want to do it they will.

Jared: Do you feel uncomfortable with that statement [by
Gelbard and Biden]?

Paunovic: I absolutely feel uncomfortable with anyone
patronizing -

Jared: You said before that the United States had nothing do
with the situation in Yugoslavia. You don't think the United
States is any part of the problem that you face in

Paunovic: Well I don't say they are not part of the problem
They are a very big part of the problem because for nine
years they saw Milosevich as a guarantor of peace and then
completely changed their policy declaring him a war
criminal. If they needed the year 1999 to realize he is a
war criminal I think they are very wrong. He is a war
criminal and a person who is seriously violating for many
years. He came to power in a completely illegal way. He had
a coup in the [former communist] party congress.

Jared: You think he's a war criminal? They charge him with
war crimes because they say the Serbian police and the
Yugoslav Army committed war crimes. Do you think the
Yugoslav Army committed war crimes in Kosovo?

Paunovic: Well that's a collective guilt issue. They should
specifiy the names of people who committed war crimes in

Jared: Do you think the Serbian Army committed war crimes in

Paunovic: I don't know. How can I know this? I don't work
for the Hague Tribunal.

Jared: Do you think the Hague Tribunal is a legitimate

Paunovic: I don't know.

Jared: You said the US has been responsible for problems
because of its policy of backing Milosevich. So that's the
only thing the United States has done? Paunovic: Are you
referring to the bombing? I mean we can talk about these
things for 24 hours.

Jared: Well, it did happen. But anyway, you take money from
the US government?

Paunovic: [Laughs] I don't know about it. I didn't say that.
Did I say it?

Jared: They say it.

Paunovic: Who?

Jared: In these hearings they say it explicitly; they say,
we've been giving large sums of money to the 'independent'
media. Now the main, the only name of 'independent' media
they mention is yours. They say, we had to stop when the
bombing started. Since the bombing ended we've been able to
start again and we're immediately going to get 10 million
dollars in there. And we have voted 100 million. That's what
they say.

Paunovic: You know, I don't know. That help was not only for
B92. I mean you have a list, practically everyone, all media
that exists in Serbia that is not controlled by the Serbian
government is on that list.

Jared: Getting money from the US?

Paunovic: Exactly,.

Jared: So they're all getting it, not just B92?

Paunovic: You know it's not a question of morality or
something like that because we're in an open war with the
government. We realized much before Washington realized we
had to overthrow Milosevich

Jared: Let me ask you, I understand you're broadcasting on
satellite. What satellite is that?

Paunovic: I don't know.

Jared: Is that Eurosat?

Paunovic: I am not a technical expert on the satellite. I
can tell you about the Internet.

Jared: Is there somebody who handles the radio I can talk

Paunovic: You can talk to me about it.

Jared; So do you know what satellite it is?

Paunovic: Yes but I don't know. I don't have anybody here
who can help you about this.

Jared: Is there anybody I can call to find that out?

Paunovic: Before, the way satellite operation was done I
think in cooperation with BBC.

Jared: Ahh, so you do know. And so now?

Paunovic: Probably the same.

Jared: Have you protested the Serbian government's exclusion
from Eurosat [the European Satellite TV link]

Paunovic: We protest all those things. Everything. [At this
point Paunovic instructed Jared to check on their website to
see about the protest against Yugoslav exclusion from
Eursat. He checked but found no such protest against
Yugoslav exclusion. Pauvonic promised to send Emperor's
Clothes the URL for the description of that protest; he sent
an email in which he stated his regrets that the URL for the
protest against Yugoslav exclusion from the Eurosat was

End of interview with Gordan Pauvonic


Interview with Sanda Savic, News editor of Radio B292
Conducted by Jared Israel, May 23, 2000.

Jared: Are you in an office there or somebody's house?

Sanda: So-called office. We are just trying to gather
computers, telephones and etc., etc.

Jared: But I understand you're still able to transmit by
satellite? What satellite to you use?

Sanda: It's a BBC satellite.

Jared: You have an arrangement with them where you can -

Sanda: It's old arrangement. They give us more time on
satellite now. Every day we are broadcasting two hours in
the morning, two afternoon and two at the evening. Six hours
a day.

Jared: The BBC contributes this?

Sanda: I don't know the details about that agreement. But we
used their satellite before. But it was just three hours
before. We made a new agreement. They just wanted to help us

Jared: That's a lot of time. What does that reach?

Sanda: We cover all the protests. That can be heard by
everyone but Belgrade because local stations rebroadcast our
programs, between 20 and 30 local stations. Unfortunately
BBC cannot be heard in Belgrade.

Jared: I understand some people are very mad at you and some
support you. Are you getting strong support?

Sanda: Many of us are very disappointed. We expect nothing
special from opposition [parties.] That's why we prepared
earlier offices and other ways to continue our work. That's
why we able to work now. Because we didn't expect anything
from the others, especially not from the opposition parties.

Jared: So you prepared a whole alternative set of offices
before this happened? Sounds expensive. Sanda: And we are
doing some things to cover Belgrade. We are trying to do

Jared: How are you doing that?

Sanda: I can't tell you more

Jared: What do you mean though, you say you're trying to
cover Belgrade?

Sanda: We are trying to make some agreement with other radio
stations, not in Serbia.

Jared: You mean like Bulgaria or something?

Sanda: I can't tell you now. You're going to find out in the
next ten or 15 days. Yes this is expensive but you know the
European Union and every organization from the outside
helped us for years and they are going to help [now].

Jared: Like what organizations?

Sanda: Like, I don't know; [George] Soros, you know? There
are so many organizations from abroad. They all help us.

Jared: Who owns the station?

Sanda: No one.

Jared: That can't be.

Sanda: We are not private. We are not a city organization.
We are just, I don't know. It's private owner

Jared: Who is the private owner?

Sanda: No one. It's just a part of Association of
Independent Electronic Media in Serbia.

Jared: You say no one is it but I'm unclear. You said no one
owns it, but you said "we prepared other offices." Somebody
has to write checks. You've got phones; you have relations
with a satellite, etc. Soros gives money; the money must go
to something, some entity. Does Soros own it?

Sanda: No no no no no no no. We don't have a legal status.
We are just part of an Association. You know what happened
during the bombing?

Jared: But somebody pays you a paycheck every week? Someone
writes a check and signs it?

Sanda: Yes but you have to ask my Director.

Jared: In other words you don't know who writes the -

Sanda: I don't know much about - it's so confused -

Jared: Specifically though you get a check you can cash at
the bank? Yes?

Sanda: Yes.

Jared: How much pay would a person get there? Is it a very
good job?

Sanda: It's a good job.

Jared: Well somebody owns it because they write a check.
Means ownership, control.

Sanda: It's like a non-government organization. We have an
Editor, Director, it's just their job to get money.

Jared: Let me read you something that's on the net now from
a guy named Paul Treanor. He says the website that was set
up when radio B292 came around is owned by KPB Telecom
through its subsidiary XS4ALL NederlandBV. (2)

Sanda: Uh -huh.

Jared: Is that correct?

Sanda: Really, I really don't know. I'm not sure. I can't
tell you anything about that. I can just give you the number
of Sasa Milkovic. He's the Editor in Chief.

[Jared's note: I called Mr. Milkovic numerous times but he
was always too busy to talk.] Further reading

'Do anti-Yugoslav Western interests own Radio 'Free' B292?''
by Paul Treanor

'B92 "solidarity" money goes to Soros Fund' by Paul Treanor at 

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[Emperor's Clothes]

Richard K Moore
Wexford, Ireland
Citizens for a Democratic Renaissance 
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