mid-March dialog


Richard Moore

From: Bill Blum <•••@••.•••>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:39:24 EST
Subject: Anti-Empire Report, March 3, 2008

Anti-Empire Report, March 3, 2008


If you get an error message, please keep trying until it works, which it will. 
If you don't want to bother that much, let me know and I'll send you the report 
within an email.

From: "Claudia Rice"
To: "rkm" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: food security
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:01:03 -1000

two interesting articles:
What is the future of agriculture in a post-petroleum world? The point at issue 
was whether today's mechanized agriculture will remain in place, or be replaced 
by a new rural economy of small farms using human and animal labor, as the world
skids down the far side of Hubbert's peak.
Communities are actually losing the ability to feed themselves from local 
sources by relying too heavily on distance markets for their food. Oregon's 
Willamette Valley makes an interesting case-study both for detailing the 
situation and articulating the strategy of relocalization as a way to alleviate 
the problems.


Hi Claudia,

Thanks for your contribution. Yes, there are two futures that could 
happen/agriculture. Let's not wait and see which happens, let's make sure we go 
down the path of small farms, localization, etc. There are billions of us and 
only a few of them.


Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 05:23:59 -0800
From: Ernie Yacub
To: "Richard Moore" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Feb dialog

>5) expansion of credit-union system to include
>ability to issue local currencies

don't need credit unions to manage, least of all issue, community currencies - 
we can create and manage accounts ourselves, like egroups on yahoo and google - 
online banking without the bank.


Hi Ernie,

Yes, we can establish community currencies by any number of means. However, if 
the network of credit unions were to undertake the project, that would probably 
be the fastest way to get the idea implemented. And once people got used to the 
idea, and if the credit unions weren't doing it right, people could then 
implement better solutions. We do need to face the fact that community 
currencies are not spreading rapidly enough by current approaches.


From: "Mary Nelson"
To: <•••@••.•••>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 10:59:36 -0800
Subject: RE: Feb dialog

Richard, I love your proposed changes to the monetary system, especially the 
sentences for the FEDs. When I read dissidentvoice and it's links and 
conversations "real money" vs. fiat money keeps coming up. My response........

"Real Money". What is that?

In the face of the Terminal Triangle of catastrophic climate change, the 
extraneous energy crisis, and essential resource depletion the only "real money"
to consider is energy. Energy acquisition equals Life. That's how it works.

In the last 150 years Homo sapiens sapiens has been busy releasing the energy 
that was being stored in the Earth for millions of years, for our convenience, 
and resulting in population overshoot. Until we bring "energy" into our 
equations we are indeed rearranging chairs on a Titanic of our mutual creation 
and to our mutual destruction as well as that of Life on Earth as it has been 
blooming for millions of years.

How can we bring Energy into our deliberations?



Hi Mary,

If we link energy & money, then we're relying on market forces to manage our 
energy for us. I think we need a much more conscious, planned approach to energy

We need to begin with who owns and controls the energy supply chain. A first 
step there would be to nationalize all the major oil companies. Then we could 
set up a global 'resource budget', where only so much oil can be extracted each 
year, based on considerations of what is needed, limiting Co2 emissions, etc. 
The extracted oil could then be allocated on an equitable basis among the 
nations of the world. Each nation would pay only the extraction & transport 
costs for their oil supply, plus a fair fee (or barter exchange) to the 
supplying nation, with no middlemen taking a profit.

Then within each nation, we'd again want to begin with resource budgeting. For 
example, a nation might allocate 20% of its supply to the construction of 
energy-efficient infrastructures, such as rail systems and other public 
transport. These projects would not be burdened by needing to pay for their 
energy needs. Then perhaps 50% of the nation's supply might be distributed to 
regional entities, for them to budget. We might end up with only 10% of the oil 
supply being released to the domestic 'open market', and there a wholesale price
could be set by government, and we'd rely on market forces to manage the 
utilization of that 10%.

Some things are best managed by market forces, and some things are best managed 
by prudent policy and planning. We sometimes forget this as we are bombarded 
daily with the pernicious propaganda that market forces are the answer to 
everything. Given the results we see all around us, I'm amazed so many people 
actually believe this propaganda.

Similarly, in the era when the Soviets banned private markets, their own 
propaganda said that planning was the answer to everything. That was equally 
pernicious. However the Russians were smarter than us -- they knew it was only 
propaganda. They were aware of their oppression.


Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:00:18 +0700
From: "Dave Patterson"
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Feb dialog

Hi Richard,

Re the Richard Cook article on economics, I just finished one myself in which I 
try to set out the Canadian situation simply and clearly - the same principles 
apply to every western country, I think, these days - Banketeering - how the 
banks have been stealing trillions from you, and the tap is still running 
http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box01-money.html if you're interested in 
sharing with your readers. I think this is pretty important stuff, we need money
in the modern world, but as long as it is controlled by the banks, we are never 
going to control anything else. Good luck with the phoenix gathering - I'd love 
to have a chance to go, but got a book to finish and no money for travelling. 
Take care - Dave


Hi Dave,

Thanks for your contribution.


Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:01:42 +1200
From: Peter Scott
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Feb dialog

>rkm> Your 'dream' seems to be aimed at enriching the banks. If we really want 
'economic sanity' I suggest we'd want to begin not with a handout (of Federal 
Reserve notes?) but with something more along these lines:
>1) nationalization of all major banks
>2) cancellation of all debts owed to such banks, particularly the so-called 
national debt
>3) termination of Federal Reserve system and indictment on treason of those who
run it (sentences to be commuted upon full televised confession of crimes going 
back to 1913)
>4) repeal of legal-tender laws
>5) expansion of credit-union system to include ability to issue local 

Indeed. Also below is my reply to Richard Cook.

Best regards

Peter Scott

ps. get well soon. We miss you :-)

[to R Cook]

While I generally go along with your premise, there are two things worth 

1. "it [UBI/ND] was the rightful share of the entire population in the producing
bounty of an industrial economy"

Lets be clear here, UBI isn¹t to be budget funded. Its paid for by the charges 
placed on users for access to assets that belong to everybody, for example, 
carbon sinks, minerals, radio spectrum, fishing quota etc. While we have some of
these charges today on a very few assets, they tend to take the form of property
rights and not perpetual tax-like charges, the latter being fairer. Extending, 
and correctly valuing these charges to all national/global assets will indeed 
generate a fortune, and have a dual conservation benefit.

2. I gather you are writing  a book on money, so be mindful of language. Some of
the terms you use are unhelpful.

"a debt-based currency":
All money systems, good or bad, are by definition based on debt and credit. 
That¹s how trade is enacted.
"A moratorium will be placed on collection of all debts created 'out of nothing'
by financial institutions":
Ditto. This is an emotional phrase being used by the Social Credit leaning camps
of  the monetary reform movement. But it reveals a regrettable lack of 
understanding of what money is. See below.

"treating credit and the creation of the money supply as a public utility":
"placing control of the monetary system under a Monetary Control Board":
No this is just another means of control. Money doesn¹t require control, in the 
sense that 'someone has to decide how much money to make available'. That¹s only
applicable if you believe that the government or someone needs to create enough 
money for us to use. But if you understand that with the use of credit 
clearing/mutual credit systems you don¹t need to first create money in order to 
use it, then the newly nationalized banks will simply provide an accounting 

Banks today do this quite well. They provide an accounting system, that debits 
the purchasers account and credits the sellers. The problem though is that banks
pathologize, and then misappropriate the proceeds of that debt.  Day to day 
trading debts are fundamentally debts to the trading community, not debts to the
bank. That is a slight of hand. Therefore the Œso called¹ cost of that debt, the
Œinterest¹ shouldn¹t accrue to the bank but to the trading community.  That¹s 

The easiest way to understand this is to imagine a new community, where everyone
starts with $0 in their account. If no-one can go into debt, then no-one can buy
anything. Someone has to go into debt briefly in order to reciprocate. If you 
get this then it will always strike you as odd when banks dishonour transactions
when your account is overdrawn. That¹s precisely how they create money scarcity,
by limiting debt to specially rationed, profitable mechanisms like mortgages, 
debentures and bonds, issued to ³approved² people at exorbitant rates. They can,
because they have first outlawed that with which ordinary traders need to enact 
trade, essentially a free overdraft.

Obviously management and securing those trading debts remains a necessity, but 
ironically and indeed paradoxically when debt stops being pathologized peoples 
debts will be much smaller.  This is because by freeing up trade, and 
substantially eradicating bank usurped interest, economic productivity will 
soar, and large capital oriented debts will become a thing of the past. 
Governments especially will never need to borrow for anything ever again.

"fund a new national monetary system"
So, a money system doesn¹t need funding. That¹s my point. Money is not a 
tangible asset, simply a tool to enact trade.

" The National Dividend had saved America"
No, that¹s just a side benefit. Unseating the banks saved America.

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:45:39 -0700
To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>
From: C
Subject: Re: The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis
Even if I accept a few families run things - and about them I remain agnostic - 
I find it harder to accept the kill off. For two reasons: I recoil at the 
thought of that degree of evil, and I do not believe in that level of 
competence. You are attributing to "them" not only bottomless evil but also 
unmatched competence in the planning, execution, and leak-proofing of the 
biggest and most heinous crime in history.

As regards the ethanol scam, is it not just as likely that corrupt and venal 
politicians (and yes, if there are a few families such as you describe the 
shrubs are surely one of them) confronted with the public clamor to "do 
something" about global warming should choose an option that offers the maximum 
amount of pork barreling while seriously offending only the weakest interests, 
and most of those in politically insignificant parts of the planet? It is 
certainly true that the two sets of motives lead to the same place, making it 
hard to prove which is more true.

All the best,



Hi C,

If the only data we look at is the current ethanol policies, then your analysis 
makes just as much sense as my own.

But let's bring in a little more data. I'm not talking about theory here, but 
clearly established historical fact...

1) The collapse of the German economy, and the rise of Hitler, were orchestrated
by these families I've been talking about.

2) World War II itself was planned and orchestrated by these families.

3) American corporations operated for profit in Nazi Germany during the war, 
using slave labor from the concentration camps, and contributing to the Nazi war

4) Scarce resources were sometimes routed to the Reich, for its use during the 
war, while the Allied Forces were in need of those same resources.

5) Allen Dulles, on behalf of our ruling elites, made it his mission after the 
war to make sure no one was brought to account for these treasonous crimes 
against humanity.

6) The media has been sufficiently controlled so that only about 1% of the 
population is aware of any of this.

When I ponder these kinds of facts -- and I could go on and on with more 
similars -- I cannot share your 'recoiling at evil' or your skepticism re/ elite
competence. Certainly World War II and the Nazi Holocaust were comparable 
big-and-heinous crimes, and they got by with it. Why do you doubt their 
intentions and competence in this more recent case?


Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:56:45 -0800
To: •••@••.•••, •••@••.•••
From: Ernie Yacub
Subject: Re: 2008: The year of the apocalypse?

richard, i think you are quite correct in your analysis but the last little bit 
about global warming is unnecessary and counterproductive - suffice to say that 
the elites and their media ignore that which exposes their genocidal acts such 
as massive subsidies to the corporate biofuel trough, imperial wars, the gaza 
holocaust, and the old and new "green revolutions".


Hi Ernie,

We are being bombarded with the message that global warming is the most 
important issue in the world, next to terrorism I suppose. We are then being 
asked to enthusiastically support the pernicious 'solutions' that are being 
offered for global warming. You are asking me to ignore this propaganda in my 
analysis of current events. I'm sorry but I can't understand the logic in that.


Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 12:58:19 -0800
From: Madeline Bruce
Subject: Re: The year of the apocalypse?
To: •••@••.•••

This is indeed troubling.  Thank you for keeping us informed. - Madeline
Bruce, Nanaimo, B. C.


Hi Madeline,

Keeping people informed on a day-to-day basis is not really what I'm trying to 
do. I'm selective in the topics I cover, and my real aim is help people 
understand the scale of transformation that is needed if we want to solve any of
our problems. Accumulating information is of little value on its own, and when 
it comes down to 'how do we fix things', an understanding of today's news, or 
even of history, is of very little relevance. We need to create a new kind of 
global society, and we need to invent it as we go along. The only thing we can 
learn from history is how not to go about it.


Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:53:39 -0800
From: Lynette
Subject: Re: The year of the apocalypse?
To: •••@••.•••

Dear Richard,

The ultimate benefactors of bio-fuels will be the corporations as usual. The  
major ones that control the food supply will have the means to hold us all  
hostage to their agenda of control.  Any food shortages that may ensue will 
impact the developing world first, but if we in the developed world think we are
going to be immune to shortages and possibly rationing, then I think we are 
deluded.  I read last week that the UN was concerned that there was only a ten 
week supply of wheat in the world market left.  Consider the implications of 
that given the weather this winter, and how it may impact our ability to grow 
food this spring/summer.

I do not consider the move to bio-fuels a conservation effort, nor is it green.
When the backbone of the world's food supply, grain and corn, are at the end of 
day going to negatively impact the food supply, then one has to ask who 
ultimately is going to benefit from this.  It is certainly not us. People must 
begin seriously questioning who is really benefiting from the environmental 
impetus to move to bio-fuels and carbon taxes.  We are in a natural cycle of 
cosmic/earth changes and though what we do may impact the planet as it pertains 
to pollution, I agree with the scientists who do not agree that these changes 
have been caused by us as a whole.  I also believe that as in medicine, that if 
it were profitable there would have been alternate energy sources a long time 
ago, as there would be a cure for cancer and a myriad of other diseases.  As I 
said before, who profits?



Hi Lynette,

I do agree with most of what you say. But I think we need to understand that 
corporations play by the rules that are set down. As David Korten says, in "When
Corporations Rule the World":

"The world is not, in fact, ruled by global corporations. It is ruled by the 
global financial system."


Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:14:44 +1100
From: Robin Mutoid
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: 2008: The Year of New Beginnings.....

Hi Richard,

I am glad to see that at last you are seeing the falsehood of the Global Warming
'scare'.. indeed it is a distraction, something to occupy the 'conscientious' 
whilst they are systematically starved!!

Yes, the US$ is falling over.. but that too has been planned! NOW what about the
Galactic Federation of Light (GF)? Or is that just TOO 'off worldly' to 
contemplate as a truth? Are we REALLY to believe that we are the ONLY sentient 
beings in this Universe? Have the UFO 'cover-ups' just been another distraction 

I think it likely that there has been put in place a 'World Trust Fund' that has
been accruing interest for MANY years, this is to form the basis of a planned 
(by the GOOD Guys!) World Abundance Program. It is seen by the Spiritual 
Hierarchy of Earth that one of the major shortfalls to our successful Ascension 
out of this 3D mess is 'Poverty Consciousness' itself.. the 'For I will 
willingly grovel in the dirt for my overlords for my undeserved pittance' 
mentality. This MUST be dispersed before we can 'move on' as fully conscious 
sentient beings of incredible creative potential.

The 'GF' are finalising the last details of this Abundance Program as we speak..
the major hold up has been (of course) the Bush/Cheney administration because 
they KNOW that the legal instigation of this program spells legal 'death' for 
them.. they have thus been fighting it tooth and nail behind the scenes, but 
really are now desperately near the end of their (ever-shortening) tether. 
Chaos, Fear, Lies and War are the only ways that they KNOW to try to save 
themselves.. but this time 'We the People' have seen through their smokescreens 
and deceptions. This time it will not work for them.

As soon as Bush et all are 'removed' (or finally surrender) the NEW can and will
be rapidly installed. There are well qualified people 'waiting in the wings', 
right the way to the top of the structure, ready to move at a moments notice. 
This will then allow for the legal Global landing of multiple GF craft and 
personnel who will have been mandated to Educate, Oversee, Guide, Apply 
Technologies  and generally allow us to realise our full potential. Then, 
Pollution need no longer be a problem; Money shortage need no longer be a 
problem; Food shortage need no longer be a problem. The more people that are 
hungry, the more people there are that WANT food. The more people there are that
want food the faster that reality can be generated. This sounds perverse but as 
our Will becomes our reality we will be amazed at what we can create.. and in 
how short a time.

Because this planet is a 'free-will' zone we have to be allowed to make our own 
choices.. ultimately we have chosen to be walked all over, we have chosen to be 
brainwashed, we have chosen to be shot, lied to, stolen from, starved and 
poisoned so that in the end we can finally, forever, one time PROVE that these 
methods do not, can not and will never actually 'win'. THIS has been our journey
and our well learned lesson in 'Duality'. We need NEVER EVER go back there.. we 
are truly at the end of a long, long cycle of learning.. and we are now winning.

Those 'management teams' running the planet are desperately trying to engineer 
an apocalypse, yes, they see it as the only way to keep us 'down'.. and to 
retain 'control', this methodology is causing an 'implosion' that is bound to 
fail.. the only grave they are digging will ultimately be their own.

Yes, it may still appear to have to get a little worse yet. Yes, this is not 
actually going to change 'overnight'.. but when one looks at just how many 
THOUSANDS of years we have been 'under the thumb', 3 or 4 more years is but a 
'millisecond' in the grander scheme of things. 2008 is the 'Year of New 
Beginnings', there is MUCH unseen action happening on 'spiritual planes'.. much 
new Light entering the beings of our planet and ourselves. This is the year, 
finally, when we will start to SEE those changes, self wrought by the will of 
the peoples, manifest triumphantly into our realities.. watch the US elections 
closely, it is to be a fantastic representation of our potential power to take 
and steer our OWN destiny into our own futures. We the People are thus actually 
engineering an 'Armageddon By-pass' situation.. the only Apocalypse around here 
will be that ultimately experienced by the perpetrators themselves. Their worst 
nightmare is coming true.. they are losing us, they are losing control. Ignore 
the chaos.. remain calm and strong inside, KNOWING that these are but the death 
throes of old way.

Technologically also we have been suppressed.. had the garden shed geniuses of 
the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies been 'allowed' to bring forth their 
discoveries onto an open market we would not be in the mess that we are now.. 
'free' and certainly 'clean' energy would have been long since established. This
actually gives the GF license to bring us forward technologically to 'where we 
should already have been' WITHOUT interfering in our ultimate destiny (thereby 
maintaining that 'free-will' clause!). We will in effect be gifted with 
everything we need in order to generate a new, clean and incredible reality! 
This is what most people WANT is it not.. whether they be misled into Global 
Warming Hysteria or not? Owing therefore to the Universal Law of 'like 
attracting like' the wants and needs of 'most people' (literally) will be met. 
This is our lesson. Watch it unfold.

We are all ONE.. the Earth and all life forms are ONE.. we are beginning to 
realise this, to move out of Duality and into Unity. We are realising that what 
we need and what we are 'given' are total polar opposites of each other! YES we 
are finally Waking Up! It WAS a bad dream.. but it's very nearly over!

Not long to go now... keep up the good work!

Love and light and Truth

Robin. :-D .


Hi Robin,

I do not scoff at the idea of aliens. If we think Star Trek is a 'plausible 
scenario' for own future exploits in space, how can we reject the possibility 
that somewhere in the universe is a civilization that already has star ships, 
and is using them to visit and intervene in other civilizations, just like on 
Star Trek?  On the other hand, I imagine that most of the ideas floating around 
about such things are probably bogus. So I basically take an agnostic attitude.

I will say this however. If there are 'outside forces or higher forces' that 
have the power to intervene, why would they need a trust fund? Are you saying 
such forces must be subservient to our current banking system?

I'd say there are two possibilities for such forces, if they exist. Either they 
are here to exploit us, or they are here to help us. If they came to exploit us,
why don't they just announce themselves and take over? If they're here to help 
us then my guess is that they know we need to solve our own problems if we are 
to grow up as a species. They don't want to treat us like children and solve our
problems for us.

When it comes down to it, a belief that 'something or someone is going to save 
us' is very disempowering.



cyberjournal: http://cyberjournal.org
cyberjournal archives: http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/

How We the People can change the world

Escaping the Matrix: http://escapingthematrix.org/

The Phoenix Project

The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis

Community Democracy Framework:

newslog archives:

Moderator: •••@••.•••  (comments welcome)