Re: cyberjournal community dialog…

2002-08-24

Richard Moore


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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:58:40 +0200
To: •••@••.•••, •••@••.•••
From: Antonio Rossin <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog...

Richard,

better perhaps if you set up a (unmoderated) mailing-list,
instead of a "chat" or a forum.  Then you can post both your
newsletter and your comment on what everyone says there.

===========

Dear Antonio,

Not a bad idea.  Perhaps '•••@••.•••' ?

It would be very easy to set up, and the archives would
be available for browsing along with the existing
lists.

But I'd still want to keep developing the chat area as
well.  What I'm learning is that different folks like to
participate in different ways.

rkm

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Agent Smiley <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog...
To: •••@••.•••

I, for one, participate in a number of forums packed
densely with information.  Since the nature of my
research is such that it is of the utmost importance
(not another world-saver) I tune to some other lists
because I have come to enjoy some of the opining
therein, like this one.  I have posted references to
"China vs. the New World Order".."Escaping the
Matrix"..and "The Zen of Global Transformation" to my
own list at
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/

I fully understand your frustration though as I have
several times made appeals to my own list to try to
get people to respond.  I have about 15 researchers and
about 200 information gluttons it seems.  Ah well.  To
see the nature of my current research, please see
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/message/12321>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/message/12321

Shall I post occasionally here?  Cyberjournal seems
rather vague in its focus yet that may be its strength.
 I am rather activist/socialist/green in my mindset. 
Please also see
<http://www.memes.org>http://www.memes.org

===============

Dear Agent S,

Nice to hear from you.  Thanks for the links to your
own work and for spreading the word about what is
available here.

'Getting people to respond' is an interesting topic. My
experience has been that if you want people to respond,
you need to 'open up' in some way. If you really put
yourself into what you say then people will respond. If
you try to 'use an approach', then people see that and
ignore you.  

You can attempt to post here, but you may find it
frustrating. I'm very unreliable.  If I've got some
other topic on my mind, you may get no air time.  My
suggestion to people who send in serious essays: make
sure you have other forums to publish in as well.  I
hate to see good work wasted.

'Vague in our focus'.  That's an interesting comment.
Speaking for myself, I'd say our focus here is the same
as the sub-title of the Guidebook:

    "How does the world work & 
    what can we do to change it?"

Any narrower topic, to me, would be like rearranging
deck chairs on the Titanic.  Or, to use the Nasrudin
motif, like looking for your keys where the light is
good instead of where you lost them.

Hope to hear more from you.

regards,
rkm
 
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:54:57 -0400
To: •••@••.•••
From: Jay Fenello <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog...

Hi Richard,

The only format that works for me is mailing lists.
I need the messages to show up in my mailbox.  I'd
much prefer a yahoo group to a chat, bulletin board,
blog, etc.

============

Jay,

OK, I'll take that as another vote for an unmoderated list.  
Different strokes for different folks.

rkm

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To: •••@••.•••
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog...
From: T K Wilson <•••@••.•••>

OK,

#1; Patience. Still the mind and the minds wandering
eyes and ears, forget time, let the process learn to
walk. Whether it ever does is not important. Nothing is
important, nothing takes precedence, solid ground is
down there somewhere (or not) but it is not of your
making or of your choosing. Let it go. You've offered
the process, now let it go.

#2, and so on; The "chat facility" needs work to
simplify it and make it easier to access. It needs a
link with an obvious title of some sort (ie;"Discussion
List") on the home page; the link should go directly to
a simple sign in or sign up page/function. (I'm still
not sure how I finally managed to get in)

Yes it would be nice if we didn't have to write while
on line, a' la "Yahoo" or some other "groups" and also
if we automatically received postings (with a "digest"
or "single postings" option). I think this would serve
to keep the discussion rolling. I'd be automatically
notified every time someone added something. In that
way it would be able to operate much like that last
floating free form letter discussion you asked to opt
out of.

I'd also like the option of having my e-mail address
posted with my messages since I believe this discussion
business needs to be as transparent and fluid as
possible. It should be able to run out and beyond the
bounds of this finite "group".

I'm mixed about the size limit. I think the limit
encourages people to be more succinct (possibly), on
the other hand that's just part of effective writing.

I was very glad to read Jan van Erps letter, and was
sorry to see it would not have been able to be included
in the discussion because it raised many important
questions (which I intend to reply to separately).

My intention is to spread the existence of this group
as far around as possible. With some time and the
addition of minds it should take off. Does it need to
be looser, with anyone being able to post? Can you keep
a "banishment" option if you do that, to keep the
trolls in check?

I have no clue about whatever technical or cost
limitations you face so don't know how they impact
things. These are just a few of my initial thoughts.
More as necessary;

=================

Dear TK,

Thanks for all the good ideas!  As you can see, there's
a lot of resonance among the suggestions people are
sending in.  There are very few restrictions on what is
possible for us.  Websites and email lists are very
easy to set up, and even easier to tune and modify as
it becomes clear what people want.  The real work is in
the contributions and the discussion.  I'm quite happy
to do what I can to provide the enabling
infrastructures.  (With the help of Chris, our tireless
systems admin.)

rkm

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:31:37 -0700
From: "Jan Van Erp"<•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Use of Chat Space (or lack thereof)

Hi Richard,

There are a few things that come to mind about
the lack of use of the chat space.  

1)  A chat is less than a forum, in that the
space is smaller and the options are less.  
Many forums allow attachments, for example.
Some even allow permanent spaces for listings
of resources like bookmarks, web sites, books
and important articles.  Yahoo does this, for
example.  

2)  In the transition from the cyberjournal
forum to the Quay Largo chat, the entire context
of the red pill and the focus on the situation
in which we find ourselves was left behind.  This
seems to me to be specifically the result of your
choice to use the pseudonym and not to include
any references to that past activity on the site.
I found that difficult because my response and
interest is in both the current situation and
the path to the future.  I would guess that many
from the previous CJ community may have felt some
difficulty about the loss of that context too.

And this is not to say that the book is not in
a better frame at the QL site.  Its clear that
it applies to much more than the context from
which it arose.  However, without that context
the new site would seem to be addressing a 
somewhat different audience.  

Thanks again for all your work,

jan

==========

Jan,

More good ideas!  Thanks.  I'll be making incremental
changes and additions to our services.  The ordering
will be partly on what is easiest to do, and partly on
what people seem to want the most. An ongoing
evolution.

As for differences in focus and participants in the 
different venues -- that's a good thing. People can
gravitate toward what is useful to them.

rkm

============================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:38:17 -0700
From: "Jan Van Erp"<•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Use of Space (Recommendation)

Richard,

Another idea.

If lack of time is keeping the larger format from being
feasible in the time that you have available, then it
might make some sense to get help in moderating the
forum.  There may be many who would be interested in
that.

I have already made the suggestion of the use of Yahoo.
Although I understand that you may have objections to
the use of a commercial space, it provides a lot of
functionality that would be useful and probably allows
many to share the role of moderator.  It also
distinguishes between the role of moderator and owner. 
And there may be other ways to achieve the same
objective of sharing the load, its just the first one
that comes to my mind because all of the other forums I
contribute to are on Yahoo.

jan

====

Jan,

I don't want to change the cj list. It has its
advantages and disadvantages, but it has worked well
over the years for what it does. It has its little
ecological niche.

I would be interested in an additional moderator for
the renaissance-network list.  Jan Slakov may come back
some day, but not likely soon.  Currently, I'm posting
everything to both lists.  If the rn list had an
additional moderator, then the lists could begin to
evolve in their own directions.

If someone else wants to set up a list on Yahoo I'd be
glad to announce it here. To me, they are the
MacDonalds of email and I dislike that kind of
centralization.  You never know who might buy Yahoo or
what is being done with all that information they've
got on their servers.

rkm

-- 

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cyberjournal website & list archives: http://cyberjournal.org
Zen of Global Tranformation: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/

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