============================================================================ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:58:40 +0200 To: •••@••.•••, •••@••.••• From: Antonio Rossin <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog... Richard, better perhaps if you set up a (unmoderated) mailing-list, instead of a "chat" or a forum. Then you can post both your newsletter and your comment on what everyone says there. =========== Dear Antonio, Not a bad idea. Perhaps '•••@••.•••' ? It would be very easy to set up, and the archives would be available for browsing along with the existing lists. But I'd still want to keep developing the chat area as well. What I'm learning is that different folks like to participate in different ways. rkm ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Agent Smiley <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog... To: •••@••.••• I, for one, participate in a number of forums packed densely with information. Since the nature of my research is such that it is of the utmost importance (not another world-saver) I tune to some other lists because I have come to enjoy some of the opining therein, like this one. I have posted references to "China vs. the New World Order".."Escaping the Matrix"..and "The Zen of Global Transformation" to my own list at <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/ I fully understand your frustration though as I have several times made appeals to my own list to try to get people to respond. I have about 15 researchers and about 200 information gluttons it seems. Ah well. To see the nature of my current research, please see <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/message/12321>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psy-op/message/12321 Shall I post occasionally here? Cyberjournal seems rather vague in its focus yet that may be its strength. I am rather activist/socialist/green in my mindset. Please also see <http://www.memes.org>http://www.memes.org =============== Dear Agent S, Nice to hear from you. Thanks for the links to your own work and for spreading the word about what is available here. 'Getting people to respond' is an interesting topic. My experience has been that if you want people to respond, you need to 'open up' in some way. If you really put yourself into what you say then people will respond. If you try to 'use an approach', then people see that and ignore you. You can attempt to post here, but you may find it frustrating. I'm very unreliable. If I've got some other topic on my mind, you may get no air time. My suggestion to people who send in serious essays: make sure you have other forums to publish in as well. I hate to see good work wasted. 'Vague in our focus'. That's an interesting comment. Speaking for myself, I'd say our focus here is the same as the sub-title of the Guidebook: "How does the world work & what can we do to change it?" Any narrower topic, to me, would be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Or, to use the Nasrudin motif, like looking for your keys where the light is good instead of where you lost them. Hope to hear more from you. regards, rkm ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:54:57 -0400 To: •••@••.••• From: Jay Fenello <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog... Hi Richard, The only format that works for me is mailing lists. I need the messages to show up in my mailbox. I'd much prefer a yahoo group to a chat, bulletin board, blog, etc. ============ Jay, OK, I'll take that as another vote for an unmoderated list. Different strokes for different folks. rkm ============================================================================ To: •••@••.••• Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: About our cyberjournal community dialog... From: T K Wilson <•••@••.•••> OK, #1; Patience. Still the mind and the minds wandering eyes and ears, forget time, let the process learn to walk. Whether it ever does is not important. Nothing is important, nothing takes precedence, solid ground is down there somewhere (or not) but it is not of your making or of your choosing. Let it go. You've offered the process, now let it go. #2, and so on; The "chat facility" needs work to simplify it and make it easier to access. It needs a link with an obvious title of some sort (ie;"Discussion List") on the home page; the link should go directly to a simple sign in or sign up page/function. (I'm still not sure how I finally managed to get in) Yes it would be nice if we didn't have to write while on line, a' la "Yahoo" or some other "groups" and also if we automatically received postings (with a "digest" or "single postings" option). I think this would serve to keep the discussion rolling. I'd be automatically notified every time someone added something. In that way it would be able to operate much like that last floating free form letter discussion you asked to opt out of. I'd also like the option of having my e-mail address posted with my messages since I believe this discussion business needs to be as transparent and fluid as possible. It should be able to run out and beyond the bounds of this finite "group". I'm mixed about the size limit. I think the limit encourages people to be more succinct (possibly), on the other hand that's just part of effective writing. I was very glad to read Jan van Erps letter, and was sorry to see it would not have been able to be included in the discussion because it raised many important questions (which I intend to reply to separately). My intention is to spread the existence of this group as far around as possible. With some time and the addition of minds it should take off. Does it need to be looser, with anyone being able to post? Can you keep a "banishment" option if you do that, to keep the trolls in check? I have no clue about whatever technical or cost limitations you face so don't know how they impact things. These are just a few of my initial thoughts. More as necessary; ================= Dear TK, Thanks for all the good ideas! As you can see, there's a lot of resonance among the suggestions people are sending in. There are very few restrictions on what is possible for us. Websites and email lists are very easy to set up, and even easier to tune and modify as it becomes clear what people want. The real work is in the contributions and the discussion. I'm quite happy to do what I can to provide the enabling infrastructures. (With the help of Chris, our tireless systems admin.) rkm ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:31:37 -0700 From: "Jan Van Erp"<•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Use of Chat Space (or lack thereof) Hi Richard, There are a few things that come to mind about the lack of use of the chat space. 1) A chat is less than a forum, in that the space is smaller and the options are less. Many forums allow attachments, for example. Some even allow permanent spaces for listings of resources like bookmarks, web sites, books and important articles. Yahoo does this, for example. 2) In the transition from the cyberjournal forum to the Quay Largo chat, the entire context of the red pill and the focus on the situation in which we find ourselves was left behind. This seems to me to be specifically the result of your choice to use the pseudonym and not to include any references to that past activity on the site. I found that difficult because my response and interest is in both the current situation and the path to the future. I would guess that many from the previous CJ community may have felt some difficulty about the loss of that context too. And this is not to say that the book is not in a better frame at the QL site. Its clear that it applies to much more than the context from which it arose. However, without that context the new site would seem to be addressing a somewhat different audience. Thanks again for all your work, jan ========== Jan, More good ideas! Thanks. I'll be making incremental changes and additions to our services. The ordering will be partly on what is easiest to do, and partly on what people seem to want the most. An ongoing evolution. As for differences in focus and participants in the different venues -- that's a good thing. People can gravitate toward what is useful to them. rkm ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:38:17 -0700 From: "Jan Van Erp"<•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Use of Space (Recommendation) Richard, Another idea. If lack of time is keeping the larger format from being feasible in the time that you have available, then it might make some sense to get help in moderating the forum. There may be many who would be interested in that. I have already made the suggestion of the use of Yahoo. Although I understand that you may have objections to the use of a commercial space, it provides a lot of functionality that would be useful and probably allows many to share the role of moderator. It also distinguishes between the role of moderator and owner. And there may be other ways to achieve the same objective of sharing the load, its just the first one that comes to my mind because all of the other forums I contribute to are on Yahoo. jan ==== Jan, I don't want to change the cj list. It has its advantages and disadvantages, but it has worked well over the years for what it does. It has its little ecological niche. I would be interested in an additional moderator for the renaissance-network list. Jan Slakov may come back some day, but not likely soon. Currently, I'm posting everything to both lists. If the rn list had an additional moderator, then the lists could begin to evolve in their own directions. If someone else wants to set up a list on Yahoo I'd be glad to announce it here. To me, they are the MacDonalds of email and I dislike that kind of centralization. You never know who might buy Yahoo or what is being done with all that information they've got on their servers. rkm -- ============================================================================ cyberjournal website & list archives: http://cyberjournal.org Zen of Global Tranformation: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/
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