-------------------------------------------------------- From: <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: weekend dialog Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:23:13 +0000 The Bush administration is waging a war however, it is not a war fought with bullets but with dollars. The way to stop their war and to use the resources to wage peace is to enact the Single Tax Proposal found on the URL http://www.taxmoney-notpeople.com Paul R. Bottis Sr. 475 Chandler Street Worcester, MA 01604 -------------- Paul, Sounds great. But why not simply enact a "Peace and Justice" proposal? rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: Private_MindSpace <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" To: •••@••.••• I haven't had a proper chance to read this chapter thoroughly - just for the pleasure that it will afford me to do so BUT I did get a chance to skim and I would like to thank you for the use of terms like, indigenous and society(ies) rather than aboriginal and civilized. I am not certain how I feel about the term primordial but there are not alot of choices in the dictionary and it has the distinctive features about it that you are looking for. Katie ------- Katie, Thanks for your guidance on terminology. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:03:03 EST Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" To: •••@••.••• Richard, you are terrific!! I have just read your email, which puts into context civilization from the get-go. I always enjoy your comments and words of wisdom, and look to you as one of the foundations of hope that we can find answers to the terrible times we are living in right now. All I can say is THANK YOU, and hope that in my emails to you, I can contribute, in some small way, to formulating some of those answers, as well. With love, Evelyn Goodman ------------ Evelyn, Your contributions are appreciated. Perhaps folks can have some fun with the magic site you came across: http://www.dslextreme.com/users/exstatica/psychic.swf rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:30:17 -0800 From: Darreld Rayner <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" To: •••@••.••• "Another interesting example has to do with the relationship between deer and their predators. Predators always go for the weakest or slowest individual, and this selective culling serves to maintain the health of the herd. When deer are free of predators, as when they live in some kind of protected area, the herd soon begins to deteriorate through disease." "Deer and their predators" In our area, Vancouver Island, the predator is the Timberwolf. The Timberwolf population is growing in leaps and bounds. With the help of multinational logging companies. They log, clearcut, in turn the wolves sit on the forests edge, what's left, and wait for dinner... Only doing what they do best.. Taking advantage of a situation in order to survive. A pack of animals working together. The pack has adapted, the deer hasn't. The wolves reward for survival is slaughter. There is now a bounty on them,for they are considered the culprits, the cause, of depleting deer populations. Yet the real culprits, multinationals, are the ones at fault for creating a situation. We also have a bear problem in our area.. Never used to be. Again the main culprits for this problem are multinationals. They have clearcut for miles behind our town. No forest left, taking away their natural habitat. Again they do what they have to do in order to survive. Come to town, Become problem bears. In turn they are destroyed. The cougars are also abundant on the Island.. I guess you could say they are the Timberwolves competition. In the end the wolves will come out on top, for cougars travel alone. They both have bounties on their heads... These are just three species affected. Multinationals are logging, paving, and killing everything in their path. Destroying, forever, a natural process that has been going on for thousands of years. I grew up in the bush, Richard. I spent most of my time as a child, hiking, camping, fishing and so on.. I remember running into bear, deer, cougar, squirrels and so on. I 've been 5 ft. away from a bear. A few times.. Face to face. I know for a fact cougar have stalked me, checking me out. The good old days. I still spend a lot of time in the bush.. I never see wild animals anymore.. All I see is road boundary ribbons, for future logging. This scares the hell out of me. More so than coming face to face with a bear. -------------- Darreld, Thanks for sharing your experiences. All systems are awry under capitalism rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:06:36 EST Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, America is an idea, not a country. We have not learned enough to truly be "America." Like a co dependent person, one must first heal issues of victimization and abuse sufficiently to desire an interdependent society. It is why someone who grows up in an abusive family (like myself) must heal the wounded ness to become whole and desire interdependency. A new revolution is being fought in the United States (not covered in the media). It is a revolution of ideas, of human values; not moral values. I am dedicated to furthering this revolution. Because I am a woman, I want to mention Queen Grace O'Malley, someone most people do not know about. A friend of mine listed her on the Google site (see Grannia). Because European history is taken from England's point of view, there is no mention of this brave warrior woman. And another thing: Warrior Women, by Jeannine Davis-Kimball, Ph.D. Dr. Davis-Kimball creates an exciting new global picture of a cadre of women, rich in gold and gifted in knowledge. These unsung heriones now take their rightful place in history--- as nurturers, soothsayers, warriors, and leaders who repelled invaders and helped conquer new worlds. From Eurasian steppes to tombs deep in Mongolia to rune-covered burial mounds in Northern Ireland, there have been powerful women. Richard, you are an enlightened man and I hope you are open-minded enough to check this out. Diana -------------------------------------------------------- From: "jack 2019" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:37:46 -0900 'A colorful example of cooperation can be found in the case of a certain plant, which is pollinated only by a single species of insect, and that insect in turn can only survive if it has access to that plant. They are each other's life support system -- the two species have a mutually-beneficial symbiotic relationship.' Names Places and Dates - teach specifics. ------------- OK, fair enough. Got any of those specifics? - rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:25:00 +1300 To: •••@••.••• From: Robert Gregory <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" had a read - much improved and solid - made me think of the article that my wife and I did recently, "Myth and Social Control: Extending a Tannese Case", archived at: http://www.krepublishers.com/Journals/T-Anth/Anth-06-0-000-000-2004-Web/Anth-06-0-000-000-2004-Contents/Anth-06-0-000-000-2004-Contents.htm which is about myth and its relationship to power and control over others - so we are indeed thinking similar thoughts - thanks ! Back from a brief vacation and much refreshed here in summertime in NZ! Cheers - bob Pacific Means Peace Robert J. Gregory School of Psychology - Te Kura Hinengaro Tangata Massey University, Palmerston North, NEW ZEALAND -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevin Carson" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Bcc: Subject: RE: "A Brief History of Humanity" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:30:26 +0000 Thus hierarchical civilization seems to have arisen as a hybrid between these two cultural strains: the partnership strain contributed the civilizing technologies and the slaves to till the soil; the dominator strain contributed the ruling hierarchy and the dominator culture. The earliest hierarchical civilizations were characterized not only by hierarchy, but also by a class distinction between the conquerors and the conquered -- a kind of nobility and peasantry, a warrior class and a toiler class. This closely parallels Franz Oppenheimer's description of the origins of the state. Franz Oppenheimer. The State (New York: Free Life Editions, 1975) http://www.opp.uni-wuppertal.de/oppenheimer/st/state0.htm ------------------ He must be a smart guy. (:>) rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:16:46 EST Subject: RE: WALTER A. DAVIS: The Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism To: •••@••.••• Dear Richard, From what I understand, it sounds like the Knights Templar, with their multinational corporations, have been reincarnated and are now in control of the United States. (It also explains my personal estrangement from my "fundamentalist" relatives, whose eyes glaze over when they speak of the 'rapture'...) Diana Skipworth ---------------- Diana, Remember the folks who sold all their possessions and were waiting for a UFO to take them away? That was a CIA practice exercise for the real thing we are seeing now. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 12:26:27 EST Subject: RE: WALTER A. DAVIS: The Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism To: •••@••.••• "Devout believers are safeguarded in a high degree against the risk of certain neurotic illnesses; their acceptance of the universal neurosis spares them the task of constructing the personal one." Superlative, keep them coming. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:30:41 -0600 Richard, Both are on the same side, they just use different metaphors. Both are "pro-death" in that they are anti liberty. You may be confusing classical liberalism with neo liberalism. As I understand it classical liberalism promoted free and critical inquiry into the nature of reality in all its manifestations where as (to the best of my understanding) neo liberalism is a rigid and dogmatic animal, and is every bit as fundamentalist as... oh, fundamentalism, except along secular lines; which if practiced diligently would be every bit as all encompassing as religious fundamentalism and would in fact be religious (reality limiting or defining) in nature. -------------- Tom, Neoliberalism is a fundamentalism that mostly the elite believe, but we all must endure the propaganda. I was talking about liberalism. "free and critical inquiry" is one of the good features of liberalism, or at least of its rhetoric, but it's only one aspect. Liberalism may not be dogmatic, indeed it is allergic to dogma, sometimes to its discredit, but it has its myths. Liberals believe in progress; they think the government can solve problems; they think we live in democracies. I find these beliefs more dangerous than those of fundamentalists. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:38:55 +0800 To: •••@••.••• From: Dion Giles <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism Re your comments, the following article which I saw in The Guardian while travelling in the UK and thought worth bringing home and scanning may be of interest. Your comment about many "liberals", too, turning their minds from demonstrable facts is apposite. One must condemn the revolt against reason no matter what form the revolt takes, including some types of "political correctness". Dion Giles Western Australia ------------------------------- The Guardian January 12 2005 Scientists hunt the ghost in the machine Ian Sample Science correspondent Scientists at Oxford University are to join forces with philosophers, theologians and brain surgeons to tackle some of the most profound questions of the human condition: what is the nature of consciousness and how do religious beliefs manifest themselves in our brains? The team, which will be called the Oxford Centre for Science of the Mind, will be lead by the neuroscientist Lady Greenfield. "I believe the time is now ripe for the machinery of scientific method to come to bear on some of these questions;' she said. The study of consciousness and the brain processes which give rise to strongly held beliefs have, for a long time, been on the periphery of scientific research. But with the advent of techniques such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, which can take snapshots of brain activity, scientists believe they can start to get meaningful answers on how consciousness arises and what makes belief systems so widespread and resilient. --<snip>--- ------------------------ Dion, I find this article amusing. It is a perfect example of reductionism gone mad. It is like trying to figure out a jigsaw puzzle by studying a bit of dust that rubbed off of it. And from a more dark perspective, it is an example of the diabolical trend toward the medicalization and mechanicalization of social "adjustment." Soon they'll be incarcerating black children who show signs of a "crime gene". rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:25:17 -0600 To: •••@••.••• From: ~ <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism Thanks for sending this. I was a little disappointed in the tone of Davis' article. Article where "insane" etc. is used tend to bother me. Because to be sane someone must be insane. And it usually works out this way. Sane is normally the writer and his group. While insane is someone else and their group. The main problem with any solution that anyone can come up with will be man. On paper Socialism, Communism, Capitalism etc. look promising. Until man is put into the mix. Then in time as the 'ism matures they fall apart and replaced by another 'ism. The history books show this to be a common theme or a never ending saga. Without the ability to dictate control of man's nature there will only be solutions that work for the moment. These two are my favorites of Emerson. Just throwing this in. http://www.emersoncentral.com/compensation.htm http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm Revelations to me is not God decreeing this is the way it ends because of his will but this is the way it will end because of man's will. It is true that some will work to effect the process either by trying to speed it up or slow it down. Thanks for sharing your work -------------------- Eagle, I have a some serious problems with your ideas. And what I do on this list is tell the truth as I see it. Please don't think I'm dismissing you; in fact I am pleased to have an opportunity to respond to ideas which many others may share. I respond in a spirit of respect. You say that the main problem is "man". I say the solution is "People". You talk about what "history books show", and you are thereby referring to the chronology of hierarchical rule. Your conclusions are not about humanity; they are about hierarchy. "Man" becomes a problem only when there are control structures that some "men" have access to. We all like power if it is available, and power corrupts. You ask for the "ability to dictate control of man's nature." Are you a god? Do you have that kind of wisdom? I am very happy and grateful for human nature. I only wish we were not in a society where every aspect of our nature is systematically suppressed, apart from our trivial and momentary desires. Insanity is not an entirely subjective phenomenon. To object to a word like "insane", as being prima facie too judgmental, is, shall we say, prejudicial. read Story of B, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:44:15 EST Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism To: •••@••.••• When I see a liberal, as I often have, dismiss a solid piece of evidence, because it "sounds like a conspiracy theory", that seems to me to be just the same as a fundamentalist dismissing hard evidence, because "the world was created in seven days". And they both remind me of the Pope who refused to look through Galileo's telescope at Jupiter's moons, because "God made the earth the center of the universe." -rkm <http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/9049.html> Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment . Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions - Einstein ------------ Frank, I think Einstein sums up about 95% of what needs to be said about belief in general. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:58:08 -0500 From: •••@••.••• To: •••@••.••• Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism If anyone can find one, I'd like to post a balancing article, revealing the "grand neuroses" of the liberal. Oh, there's plenty, if you want them. The problem would be with selecting just ONE. RSVP. Alan --------- Alan, I don't want just any anti-liberal article; I want something at the same scientific level as the Fundamentalist piece. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Armand B Cote" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Reply: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:59:55 -0500 Greetings Richard! I have been following your commentaries for a long time. I think your question about "Liberals" and their world view is a question which can be expanded to cover just about any group's world view no matter how small or large the group is. The early historical 'wisdom' in fact refers to your query (broadened by my observation) about the role of delusion in human society. I will refer to the famous metaphor in Plato's Republic where the general condition of humanity is summed up in the picture of the cave dwellers who live in darkness and mistake the shadows of themselves cast upon the cave wall by the fire as the real world. Going into the sunlight was a tough thing to do but only in the sunlight would the real world be understood, so Plato tells us. Are we surprised when Plato offers a 'fascistic' social order as part of the remedy? We should not be since we all have the capacity to realize delusion in other world views but few of us will admit to the delusionary content of our own world view. The 'reported' teachings of Bhudda tell us that enlightenment is the casting off of our attachment to our delusions. There are numerous references in the literature up to the present time to the condition of delusion, partial or total, individual or group, as the lot of humanity. Today, these delusions are described in modern times in the social sciences and in the psychiatric and psychological findings. In a word, the world is infested with the confining consequences of delusionary belief systems which masquerade in many religious and secular garbs which are also plugged into the pursuit of and or defence of power, privilege and wealth. So, Richard, from one horizon of the globe to the other, with increasing intensity, the believers in their own world view denounce with confidence the delusionary world views of others. This growing conflictual intensity reminds me of algae blooms which poison vast areas of sea coast under certain conditions. It appears to me that the ferocious ideological/religious blooms which used to be geographically confined and separated in time such as those of the European religious wars and the Fascist/Communist episodes, each engendering a broader reach than former outbreaks, are about to be replaced with a truly global maze of conflicts. Are we surprised that the 'neo-liberal' version of 'globalization' serves as the toxic transmission condition for the developing chaos? The transformation of 'sleeping' or unmoblized world views into ferocious, war-like and exterminatory convictions can be found everywhere in history. But, the world civilization has never been completely possessed by delusionary and maniacal toxic bloom all at once. There was a first time for going to the moon as there is a first time for everything. Are we about to have a first time global eruptions of world views each in contention for survival at the expense of all others? To me, Richard, this is where the exploration of the line of inquiry leads when considering your question about 'liberals.' Best regards Armand Ottawa, Canada -------------- Dear Armand, Thanks for your essay. I enjoyed reading it. As regards liberals, I still think it is worthwhile to understand specific delusional patterns, even though I agree delusions, of some sort, are a general condition. The recent emergence of war-like convictions is not an accidental phenomenon. The global Jihad movement, for example, was planned and financed by the CIA. It's the replacement for the Cold War, and it's the core of Huntington's thesis on "The Clash of Civilizations". Similarly, the born-again movement is a cult project, following after CIA experiments such as those involving Rev. Jim Jones and David Koresh. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:49:58 -0700 Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism From: RADICAL PRESS <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••>, <•••@••.•••> Dear Richard, et al, I thought that Diane Harvey's comments on liberals and conservatives might help to elucidate a bit further the sometimes vague notions surrounding these seemingly dualist descriptions of the human character. The following excerpt below is therefore given. In Peace, Light & Undying Courage, Arthur Topham Pub/Ed The Radical Press -------------- Arthur, Thanks, good article. I posted it to newslog: http://www.cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?id=407&lists=newslog I liked this excerpt: We no longer have any idea of what a living culture might look like. We can hardly conceive now of a free, robust and healthy civilization, even for our own country. We fondly imagine that the stock market is the indicator of a nation's health. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: •••@••.••• Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:10:07 EST Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism To: •••@••.••• Richard, See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I was a moron. My God - perhaps I am! jim -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kay Miller" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: WALTER A. DAVIS: The Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:08:46 -0700 Hello: I want to thank you for emphasizing Walter A. Davis's article in your January 25 entry. I had seen it on Counterpunch in early January, but didn't take the time to read it. I did today, and it is critical reading for people (especially on the "Left") dismayed by the stolen election, those still perplexed by the "cult" (S. Hersh) in Washington, D.C., and for all those who don't recognize capitalism as the other fundamentalism so equally and perversely destructive to our well-being, the future, and the survival of the planet. You were absolutely on target to underline the extraordinary illumination of his writing and thinking. I have also been reading Bertel Ollman, and recommend him for similar reasons. Thanks again. K. Miller -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: Private_MindSpace <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: a brief comment RE: Psychology of Christian Fundamentalism To: •••@••.••• Don't recant! This book, "The Necessity of Madness & Unproductivity" by Dr. John Breeding discusses this very attribute of 'fundamentalism' from various perspectives. For the sake of the horrific harms done by this mindset - Don't recant! The article was not negative! It was pointed in its analysis of a mindset - the mind that perpetrates itself for 'ones' own good' and for 'the good of all'. Katie -- ============================================================ If you find this material useful, you might want to check out our website (http://cyberjournal.org) or try out our low-traffic, moderated email list by sending a message to: •••@••.••• You are encouraged to forward any material from the lists or the website, provided it is for non-commercial use and you include the source and this disclaimer. Richard Moore (rkm) Wexford, Ireland "Escaping The Matrix - Global Transformation: WHY WE NEED IT, AND HOW WE CAN ACHIEVE IT ", somewhat current draft: http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/rkmGlblTrans.html _____________________________ "...the Patriot Act followed 9-11 as smoothly as the suspension of the Weimar constitution followed the Reichstag fire." - Srdja Trifkovic There is not a problem with the system. The system is the problem. Faith in ourselves - not gods, ideologies, leaders, or programs. _____________________________ "Zen of Global Transformation" home page: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ QuayLargo discussion forum: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ShowChat/?ScreenName=ShowThreads cj list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=cj newslog list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=newslog _____________________________ Informative links: http://www.indymedia.org/ http://www.globalresearch.ca/ http://www.MiddleEast.org http://www.rachel.org http://www.truthout.org http://www.williambowles.info/monthly_index/ http://www.zmag.org http://www.co-intelligence.org ============================================================
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