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From: "Boudewijn Wegerif" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: SV: cj#1022,rn-> Readers talk about propaganda
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:28:43 +0200
Dear Richard,
A really interesting and useful posting. It gives an idea for a
possible publication - - One writes a few paragraphs and asks for
comments.
Nice one.
Thanks.
Boudewijn.
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:46:15 -0600
From: aat <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: cj#1022,rn-> Readers talk about propaganda
Dear cj,
Dion Giles wrote:
>Gibes about "conspiracy theories" are a favourite weapon of
>conspirators. It's their defensive put-down word for
>whistleblowing. One must always remember that the most
>fantastic and unblievable conspiracy theory of all is the
>theory that if a group of people can gain by conspiring
>together behind closed doors what they couldn't gain out in
>the open, they can't or won't do so.
Which reminded me of an intro that I saw a while ago,
reproduced here:
------
"Somewhere along the line, probably through the corporate
communications media, which seems to have taken the reins in
the guidance of our thinking, we have been conditioned to
believe that it is somehow wrong, subversive, sinful or
insane to question the often vague and confusing reasons
given to explain the occurance of important trends and
events that appear in the world.
Anyone who questions the generally accepted reason given to
explain any given trend or event, and offers an alternative
reason, or believes that practically nothing of consequence
that happens in the world, happens by chance, but is instead
carefully planned and executed, is labeled with a term
designed to send shivers up the spine - 'conspiracy
theorist'.
Who me? Hey, come on, I'm no conspiracy theorist - perish
the thought - it's just that, well gosh, I don't know, it
just seems, I mean...
In this way, the number of conspiracy theorists is kept to a
minimum and the conspirators are free to go about their
business unhindered by criticism or exposure."
------
I think media propaganda of the kind that is being discussed
on this forum is a blatant conspiracy, and we should label
it as such, and if someone refers to us as 'conspiracy
theorist' we might answer - yes, that's true, and anyone who
is not a conspiracy theorist in this regard either doesn't
understand the problem, or is not being honest with himself.
Enough of the media laying guilt trips upon us for speaking
the truth.
cheers
austin
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:52:04 -0500
To: •••@••.•••
From: Walter Miale <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#1018> Chossuvosky: SEATTLE AND BEYOND: DISARMING THE
NEW WORLD ORDER
>There is evidence that several of the key NGOs have been
>infiltrated by Western intelligence agencies. The
>Counter-Summit is to be fragmented into a "mosaic" of
>secluded events focussing on separate and distinct policy
>issues. The hidden agenda is to enable each of these
>separate venues "to do their own thing" in a semblance of
>"people's participation": the goal of the Seattle organisers
>is to mask the truth, prevent the development of a mass
>movement, suppress real democracy and uphold the authority
>of the institutions of the New World Order.
Don't you find this paranoid? Why do you give this circulation?
Walter Miale
Green World Center
Sutton, Quebec
==============
Dear Walter,
What leads you to believe Chossudovsky's material is
paranoid? Do you think that organizations cannot or are not
likely to be infiltrated by intelligence agencies? Have you
never heard of the well-documented "COINTELPRO" programs of
the 1960s and 1970s? If democracy is the greatest threat to
the corporate new world order, then why would democractic
institutions (governmental and non-governmental) not be the
targets of attack? Doesn't it bother you that the WTO has
become the governor of the world and yet most people never
heard of it until the Seattle protests? Did this happen by
a democratic process or by a conspiratorial process?
Paranoid people look for hidden explanations when there is
no good reason to do so. In the case of the WTO and "free
trade" there _is good reason to look for hidden explanations
- the public propaganda makes no sense whatsoever. You, on
the other hand, seem to be looking for a hidden explanation
for Chossudovsky's observations. What is your good reason
for doing so?
Perhaps paranoia is in the eye of the beholder.
rkm
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:36:36 -0600
From: Konopak <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#1021, rn-> Let's talk about propaganda...
To: •••@••.•••
have you looked at J. Ellul's landmark 'propogandas',
published in the 60's? then there is what i (in my
dissertation) called the svengali factor: the people
providing the channels---what we call the media--- have two
constituencies...well they have only one, really, the ones
who buy the time, the advertizer...anyway, they have to
claim to the advertizer that advertizing---buying
time---works while at the same time claiming to the
'subjects' of the ads that the ads don't really work, and
taht they hve the u;timate authority to accept or reject the
ideas...Eco takes up this issue in a collection of his work
called Hyperrealities (1990?)...
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From: "Janice Graham" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#1023> The quotable THIRD WORLD TRAVELER
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:36:26 +1300
Absolutely brillant! Brillant! Brillant!
Has to be the best and most useful posts I have
recieved. Explore it and see for yourselves.
;^)
Thanks
janice
=========
Janice - it sounds like you republished - thanks - rkm
============================================================================
From: Philip Sanchez RDG <•••@••.•••>
To: "'•••@••.•••'" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: propaganda
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:15:09 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Richard,
just my 2pence worth on the subject...
We live now in a world where there is a "enforced" focus on
work/play lifestyle (as opposed to work/pray as in
traditional societies). Sociologists will tell you if you
want good output from workers make them content but also
tell them when to shovel, at what rate, how much and when to
take breaks etc. This requires that they be given a chance
to let off steam due to the extreme intensity of work needed
to maximise profit (hence the Friday night revolution of
last 2-3 decades. All the individuals energies being thus
utilised. Hence we see almost every individual involved in
some mass sport (football, Rugby etc) or other social
activity to soak up excess energy/anger. Anyone who does not
have an interest in football say, is in a minority and
considered boring or antisocial!.
having travelled in E.Europe widely I found a startling
difference among the masses: they were not brainwashed to
the extent that sport was the only topic of discussion! You
could (and still can) hold a decent conversation about
current affairs/world events, poverty, corruption within
government etc with just about anybody. This sort of
analysis is also pretty widespread and even more acute (in
my opinion) amongst many of the Muslim nations (Egypt,
Sudan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Palestine, Libya). But this is
changing as I have observed over the past few years in
Croatia & Bosnia.
this is purely the result of the US type of propaganda (to
use a term used by one of the readers).
From a slightly different angle the changes to society is
even more clear when you look at what is coming out of
Tinsel town. All the major movies are converging towards a
"new genre", pointing at the same thing. So instead of Moses
and the ten Commandments we now have The Matrix (case you
don't know what is the Matrix see www.newdawnmagazine.co.au
for an excellent review), Independence Day. All with either
a common theme or supporting an Elite World-wide conquest
scenario conditioning our minds and giving us glimpses of
times to come. The Elite even have the audacity to tell us
exactly who they are (and how they operate) unclothed so to
speak. This speaks volumes of the contempt in which they
hold humanity, the sheep to sheared and harvested for meat.
What comes to mind is the scene from the TV series "V" where
the saviours of the world are able to block temporarily
transmission signals which are used to cloak advertising
boards to reveal black and white images of boring huge
lettered messages readable only by the Aliens. Is this not a
crystal clear analogy of today's advertising boards, indeed
the entire media circus?
Phil
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