cj#705> feedback re/cyberjournal


Richard Moore

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997
Sender: Robert Sullivan <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#704> about rkm

Thanks for the informative summary, Richard.  Interesting life,
interesting list.  And the iconclasmic remarks on the conventional wisdom
about the Net and the coming of "electronic democracy" seem intuitively
correct to me--however much I wish they weren't.  Too much of a
Chomskyite, I suppose, to think this venue will be any more likely to
escape corporate pre-emption than other media have been . . . .

Best of luck.

Robert Sullivan
University of Wisconsin

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997
Sender: •••@••.••• (Kathleen Geathers)
Subject: Re: cj#703> Globalism and the U.N.

I am very appreciative of information posted by Richard Moore. I, too,
find the role of the corporate world very frightening. The corporations
are lacking in morality with regards to what is best for people; instead,
it is the dollar, and nothing else matters. There is a move on to try
to limit the power of the corporations, but it is feeble at best, but it is
a start.

Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997
Sender: "•••@••.•••" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#704> about rkm

>                        Also giving a talk next month at a conference on
> Electronic Democracy, where I will attempt to break the news to the true
> believers that Internet is very unlikely to be the model on which
> cyberspace is to be constructed.  When the fiber goes in, and
> commercialization begins, we'll be quietly asked to hand in our tin cans
> and string and prepare to "consume".  These are the glory days of the net,
> so please enjoy them.

Richard, in the end you're simply a poet of capitulation.  In order for
dignified human life to continue here in America (or perhaps I should say
appear for the first time) rivers of blood will have to flow, and
infrastructural obliteration occur on a mammoth scale.  Foreign and
domestic investors will then do what they always have done when a society
is on fire: they'll pull out their money, and whatever native creativity
might inhere in this criminally duped population will have its chance.

I find you a bit too enamored of the things you profess to hate, like the
military.  What is proven if the armed forces set up a mini-welfare state
in Hawaii after a hurricane?  It's good practice in securing a combat zone,
and probably was inspired by a call from one of the state's baronial
families, like the Dillinghams, fearing the summary rape of its lands by
human locust swarms.  The services were just as "humanitarian" in southern
Dade County, Florida after Andrew blew through, but only because the
biggest Air Force facility in the eastern states was wiped out.  They had
to get it back up pronto, before Cuba was tempted to invade.

I can scarcely blame you too much, however; living in more congenial
Europe took the cutting edge off _my_ blade as well.  Come back to the
belly of Moloch and risk every moment the start of the National Security
State's decision to go for broke.  We are ruled by scum here; for you
that's merely a political memory.

                                                         Occupied America

        "The most potent weapon of the oppressor
              is the mind of the oppressed."    -- Steve Biko


ah valis - you make so many assumptions.  what makes you think "rivers of
blood" would be likely or necessary?  images of french or russian
revolutions?  for a "people" to rise up in that way, the people need an
identity, they need someone to fight, and there must be no alternatives
available to them.  those just aren't our current conditions.  there is no
"popular identity" and there is no convenient landowner class in their
manor houses to storm.  and we've lost the ability to even provide for own
survival in time of chaos (hint: safeway wouldn't be open)

"a poet of capitulation"?  ...one pre-condition for people striving to
control their own destiny is to understand the dangers facing them.  i
spell out the realities of Cyberspace INC not to say it's inevitable, but
to show where the train's heading if we don't seize the controls.  more
important, to help us understand what kinds of actions are "part of the
problem" and which "part of the solution".

your "solution" is to pass through the eye of the apocalypse.  no thanks.
(1) doesn't give us anything constructive to work on in the meantime (2)
isn't necessary (3) isn't likely to improve anything (4) isn't even likely.
where do you, and others such as the militias, get the idea that creative
political organization would be easier in a time of societal breakdown &
starvation & non-existent communications?  NOW is the time for CONSTRUCTIVE
organization.  a wish for final chaos, in the mind of the oppressed, is in
fact a potent weapon of our oppressor.


Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997
Sender: Raleigh Myers <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#704> about rkm

>It must be somewhat akin to operating in a sensory-deprivation tank,
>running a list without feedback from subscribers.

        Hi Richard

        Does this mean we can submit stuff to go on the list or just comment
on your stuff? i have also cross posted some stuff to other lists.   Have
you been publicizing the web site?


        Your bio was great nice idea.  I might do something like that if  I got
the chance but my line of consulting is a bit less portable :).

In Solidarity

Raleigh Myers
Ra Energy Fdn

Don't forget to get some bumper stickers printed.



People are always welcome to send in responses, new comments, or forwards
of exceptionally interesting items.  I don't promise to publish anything,
for lots of reasons, including the fact that I get taken up by other
projects or trips from time to time.

FOLKS> please take a look at the web site Raleigh set up.


X-From_: •••@••.•••  Mon Aug 18 03:32:21 1997
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 10:08:29 +1200
To: •••@••.•••
From: RGregory <•••@••.•••>
Subject: re your cyberjournal

Dear Richard - I enjoy your comments, and most particularly, I was drawn
to your self-description, and fascination with systems.  I would like to
get your mailing address to send you some drawings I have used to
present "systems" to various audiences since about 1968 when I
discovered systems and threw away about 97 various theories which in
retrospect made little sense even then.  My drawings provide a simple
way to teach people about systems using no more than a chalkboard.  I
figure you will enjoy such - keep writing as your comments are straight
on - remind me just a tad of my own move from USA to New Zealand in
1983, after many protests against Viet Nam, Nixon, and the difficulty of
changing the system of governance in the USA - New Zealand is not all it
is cracked up to be, but there are some advantages and some good things
happening.  Thanks.  bob gregory
Robert J. Gregory
Department of Psychology
Massey University
Palmerston North, NEW ZEALAND


Pacific Means Peace

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997
Sender: •••@••.••• (Kathleen Geathers)
Subject: Re: cj#704> about rkm

Richard, I am glad that you were asked about your background. It is very
interesting, and travel broadens one. The world would be better if citizens
asked questions, would analyze situations for themselves, and demand of
these rascals who represent us to do so in a moral way.