------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 From: •••@••.••• (Joe Ferguson) To: •••@••.••• Subject: Re: cj#864> Blum vs. rkm debate, re: left & right Dear CJ, I can see why Bill Blum disagrees with the statement (of Carolyn Chute) that "There's no right wing or left wing, there's just up and down." Obviously (and I don't think anyone in this debate disagrees) people ARE effectively divided today. The reality is that there are currently these two (or more) "wings" rather than a unified body of people. I think Carolyn's point is that there is minimal SUBSTANCE to the differences creating the divisions between most of us. Our irritation with each other must be carefully and constantly cultivated, like scratching a case of poison ivy. But Bill seems to disagree with this and I'd like to question one of his foundations for that. Bill states: "The right-wing libertarians, about whom you were writing differ profoundly from myself, a leftist. They worship the market system and the profit motive, while i would greatly reduce the power of both in society." Since Bill doesn't say he would _eliminate_ the market system and the profit motive, but would only reduce their power, he sounds to me more like a moderate than a "leftist." (In my vocabulary "moderate" is a GOOD thing. They are the real people, attempting to raise things like children, crops and consciousness.) I, being an engineer who believes natural forces must be harnessed rather than opposed, am committed to recognizing the reality of market forces and the profit motive -- but I sure as shit don't WORSHIP them! My question is, how many people are really extremists on either "side" and how many are really moderate and practical? Bill is obviously moderate and reasonable (except that he requires me to accept the label "leftist" to possibly have a "valid, consistent social analysis" :-) I think neither extreme leftists or extreme rightists have a viable analysis, but rather it is the practical moderates that are coming up with a picture that exposes the essential baselessness of what people allow to divide them today. After we've fed the children and cleaned up the river, let's sit down and debate left vs. right. - Joe Ferguson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Peter J. Celano" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 I have written several pieces over the years regarding this issue. Here are a couple: -- The Myth of Symptoms (I must thank Harold Thomas for providing the Bastiat quote at a moment when this piece was floundering at half-completion.) The Myth of Symptoms Everybody seems to have a pet issue or two; social or political issues or situations that really get them going. Often, people will determine whether they are "right" or "left" depending on their favorite pet issues. Those who despise the seemingly lawless machinations of big business or support ecological responsibility generally flock toward the "left." Likewise, those who dislike restrictions on business or heavy taxation tend to flock toward the "right." Most people associate with one side or another primarily because of these issues. We then head to the polls and vote the side we associate with. The hottest issues of the day delineate the playing field, and the hottest rhetoric of the day wins the campaign. The winners of the two "opposing sides" then join hands and skip happily off to Washington, the land of glory. There they play some charades and say some things and eventually retire very wealthy. "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it" --Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) We the People have a problem, and that problem doesn't have a thing to do with "right" or "left," "conservatism" or "liberalism." The problem is that our elected officials have created a legal system that authorizes plunder and a moral code that glorifies it, and they simply will not let it go. Observe the proceedings regarding campaign financing; neither "side" can get too heavy handed because ALL are guilty. Each of us has our own hot buttons. I ask each to carefully explore those Important Issues to find what is lying underneath. The troubles of this nation are but symptoms of an underlying disease. The symptoms are grievous; it is understandable that individuals tend to immerse themselves in a few choice ones rather than get bogged down with the "big picture." Fortunately for our power elite, however, these Important Issues tend to keep us divided along pseudo-political lines. They are broad enough in scope and numerous enough to effectively hide the underlying corruption. Our own zealousness makes very effective blinders. As long as we continue to think along pseudo-political lines, we will remain divided in our battle against the underlying corruption that utterly permeates government. It is long past time for the "right" and the "left" to agree that the situation is not acceptable to anybody but the corrupt elite, put aside our relatively unsubstantial differences and root the corruption out of our government. We are busy fighting tiny ideological battles along false fronts with impotent ammunition, while the real battle remains not only unfought but unrecognized. The symptoms are real, but the notion that resolving any or all of them will cure the disease is a myth. As long as We the People continue to believe that myth, we will continue to vote the same kind of corruption back into power. -- Copyright Peter J. Celano, 1997. Permission to copy and distribute in electronic form is granted, provided there is no modification and this copyright notice is included. If you wish to publish this in any other form, please contact me at •••@••.••• for permission. -- A New Continuum Clinton is on the left. Dole is on the right. Commies on the left. Fascists on the right. The little guy on the left. Big business on the right. We can measure motives, social movement, government and economic policy and personal philosophies using this left-right continuum. Or can we? Here's a new continuum to try on for size. At one end, place individual freedom. At the other end, place tyranny. Now start examining politicians, governments, organizations and social movement using this new continuum. Where is the "right," really? How about the "left?" Then examine yourself. Where do you stand on such a continuum? Who are you going to vote for? Where does he or she stand on this continuum? How do the voting records of your representatives stack up when measured in this manner? The so-called "right" and "left" continuum has been reduced to the fog of the unknowable through years of lies and rhetoric. Many who believe they are fighting for freedom are actually only fighting against one or the other of these ridiculous labels. The definitions tell no longer provide any useful information about what is being labeled with them. They simply do not serve any purpose except to divide us against one another. So instead of asking whether a person is coming from the left or from the right, try asking whether a person is coming from individual freedom or from tyranny. The question alone may be enough to spark some understanding of where our beliefs and actions are leading us. Where do you stand? Where will you stand? Do you still have the choice of position? The other end of this continuum offers no such choice. c Copyright Peter J. Celano, 1996. All rights reserved. Permission granted to freely repost in electronic form, provided the entire article is reproduced intact, along with this copyright notice. Please contact me at •••@••.••• for permission to reproduce in any other form. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ a political discussion forum - •••@••.••• To subscribe, send any message to •••@••.••• A public service of Citizens for a Democratic Renaissance (mailto:•••@••.••• http://cyberjournal.org) ---------------------------------------------------------- Non-commercial reposting is hereby approved, but please include the sig up through this paragraph and retain any internal credits and copyright notices. .--------------------------------------------------------- To see the index of the cj archives, send any message to: •••@••.••• To subscribe to our activists list, send any message to: •••@••.••• Help create the Movement for a Democratic Rensaissance ---------------------------------------------- crafted in Ireland by rkm ----------------------------------- A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication. -- Frantz Fanon
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