dialog – Don Nordin + misc.


Richard Moore

From: “Kevin Carson” <>
Date: August 16, 2008 7:29:52 PM GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: NY Times sums up Georgian operation
On 8/14/08, Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> wrote:
This seems to be Washington’s initial objective in launching the episode: to attempt to ‘isolate’ Russia by getting it expelled from the various global institutions, beginning most likely with the G8.
Such a move, if it succeeded, might rile Moscow a bit, but would have little effect otherwise. Only some kind of economic boycott of Russia would cause pain, and that is very unlikely given Europe’s dependence on Russian-supplied natural gas. On first examination, I’d say this ‘isolate Russia’ initiative is a desperate defensive measure, aiming to decrease the rate at which EU-Russian exchange relationships are growing. I don’t see the US gaining anything here by such means.
For the reasons you state, the practical effect of any such expulsion
might well be more like that of the English Reformation as described
in “1066 and All That”:  The pope and his bishops seceding from the
Church of England.
It would simply demolish whatever shaky pretense still exists that
such institutions are truly global, rather than those of one
superpower.  And it would also harden the coalescence of the world
into two distinct camps, destroy the illusion that Europe was part of
America’s global system, and heighten the sense that the EU was a
neutal party between two contending geopolitical powers.
Kevin Carson
Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
Anarchist Organization Theory Project

Hi Kevin,
And it seems that Germany and France are indeed refusing to follow Washington’s lead, and saying sensible things about relations with Russia. Interesting how politicians reveal a hidden capacity to be sensible, when that happens to coincide with their agendas. 
Washington won’t give up however. Georgia was simply the first poke at the bear, with more sure to follow. Washington wants to force Europe to choose one side over the other, under the assumption they won’t choose Russia. This will be a difficult time for European leaders, where they will need to re-examine their overall strategic posture in many dimensions. Outcomes uncertain at this point.
If Europe does manage to maintain good relations with Russia, and if the US doesn’t start World War III, I don’t think that will lead to two distinct camps. I think we’d get a multi-polar world, more geopolitically harmonious than we’ve had for centuries. I suspect a  more regional global system, less globalized, with dominant powers in the North staking out claims to Southern territories as resource bases, eg the North American Union and intrigues-to-come in South America.
From: “Howard Switzer” <>
Date: August 22, 2008 7:43:13 PM GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: red-pill news to 21 Aug
Heavy Rains Drowning U.S. Crop Production Hopes
This posting is a bit late, as I’ve got about 700 messages in my in box. But 
it’s relevant nonetheless. There is little doubt in my mind that these floods 
were caused by HAARP, as a means of accelerating the program of global 
genocide through starvation. rkm  –
I agree it is probably caused by HAARP.  I think they want to ruin the last of the farmers to get total control of the land.  The time is nearing to when we simply have to go to plant based energy system and economy in  their efforts to maintain a centralized system.  They don’t just do genocide for nothing, right? 

Howard Switzer, Architect
668 Hurricane Creek Road
Linden, TN 37096

Yes, maintaining a centralized system is what it’s all about.

Date: August 25, 2008 5:34:42 PM GMT+01:00
To: “‘Richard Moore'” <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Don Nordin
Hi Richard,
Of course we are all Don’s fellow passengers on this dark voyage. While a few of us are up on deck watching in horror as the crazed senior officers are ordered to deliberately steer for the iceberg, the vast majority are below decks being seduced by their propaganda, believing all is well. Warnings to our fellow passengers have been ignored.  The passengers and bulk of the crew implicitly trust the professionalism and integrity of the ships owners and senior officers.  Why should they not? They know of no reason not to.  They immediately dismiss us as numb nuts when we go below and attempt to explain what we have seen happening up top. As I have suggested to you on several occasions,  I believe the only possible way to get the other passengers to listen is by clearly demonstrating that the ship’s owners, plus the Captain and his senior officers, have previous form for this… lots and lots of it.  Tearing down Matrix history and presenting truth of the past is, I suggest, our only hope.  
Perhaps the time has indeed come to realize that it is to late to wrest control of the ship and direct it on to a safe new course.  Can we really expect folk to grasp the fact that the nightmare of 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the powers that control the US, when they are unaware that the forefathers and agents of those very same elites were responsible for the entire carnage of the 20th century?   This is where our last-gap energies must now be best concentrated.  As you know, I am beavering away regards the truth of WW1 and the Russian Revolution etc being instigated by the self-same controlling Western elites. I still cling to a very slim hope that we can turn the ship round, but it requires a speedy and intense collaborative effort from all who realize what is happening. 
It is urgently important  that as many people as possible are enabled to become aware since we cannot expect people to act on your Transformational Imperative if they don’t see the need for it. Little sparks can ignite a conflagration, and I still do believe that Escaping the Matrix will be such a spark.   Can I suggest that all subscribers to Cyberjournal purchase a dozen copies of ETM as early Christmas presents for friends. Then, after reading it, each of those friends sends copies to another dozen friends, and so on, and so on.  It’s a capitalist technique but desperate times call for desperate measures.    
Whatever, for the coming days and weeks I hope Don will accept my best wishes and the part of my energy I send him that he may be able to go easier on the path he has now to take. 
Best wishes,

Hi Jim – keep up the good work! – richard

From: “Dave Patterson” <>
Date: August 23, 2008 3:21:35 PM GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: Don Nordin: A Voyage Through Dark Times

     Very interesting, I know many are thinking similar things.
     What you talk about as refusal to give up is also referred to as denial in other contexts. Acceptance is the final stage of this path. If the phoenix must conflagrate to bring the new world to birth, then that is what will happen. Not a criticism, just a comment – I too am in a similar position of having been fighting for years with no appreciable results – I don’t feel like giving up, but I am more and more getting the impression that waking the masses up to the danger we are in is not going to happen – and where does that leave us?

Hi Dave,

You ask a very good question, where does that leave us? I came to your same conclusion: waking the masses up to the danger we are in is not going to happen. I came to that conclusion not so much from the macrocosm – watching public opinion and how it is formed – but more from the microcosm – by dialoging with people on the Internet. I found that almost no one ever changes their position on ‘the issues’. It’s more complicated than that, but I did reach your same conclusion – and with a certain degree of certainty.

But after that ‘giving up’ – on ‘educating people’  – I was then able to move on from there, and explore the situation from a different angle. It’s not just that people don’t get it about ‘the great problems in the world’, it’s a bigger thing that that. People have different ways of understanding the world, and ‘international affairs’ and ‘politics generally’ are only one part of people’s understandings, and for some it’s not a big part. People’s ways of understanding are widely varied, and involve a mix of personal experience, parental upbringing, culture, personality type, religious affiliation, vocation, spouse & family, etc. Keeping up on the news is only a small part of the picture.

When we push a cause or an idea, we are trying to convince everyone to give our cause or idea a high priority in the context of their world view. And why are we doing this? Because we want everyone to be motivated to change the situation. There are two problems with this kind of endeavor. The first is that people don’t shift their priorities very often, and the battle to control people’s world views is a very competitive one, and is dominated by the mass media. The second problem is that knowledge of the problem seldom empowers one to implement the solution. So even if the impregnable castle of understanding could be breached, it’s not clear that the kingdom would be saved.

In the end, big ideas, ideologies, causes, and religions are all divisive. I’m sure that was what Dylan was thinking when he sang, I became the enemy in the moment that I preached. He was thinking either of that or of the fact that causes and movements tend to breed followers, ie sheep following a different shepherd, reinforced and comforted in their sheepness (baah, baah, aren’t we cool!).

So I came to accept that the world is full of crazy people who believe all kinds of things and it’s not going to change and it’s OK as it is. The problems arise when someone starts trying to homogenize the hodge podge, as when someone starts a religion, or when nationalism arose after the Middle Ages. Movements and ideologies are attempts to homogenize, and they become the agents of hierarchy, centralization, and manufactured divisiveness. 
As I mentioned, the root motivation of our activism is the desire to change things. Causes, education, and the political system are not viable vehicles for changing things. Accepting this – giving up on them – is the first step toward finding workable paths to change. 

As regards ‘the ignorance of masses’, I’ve observed that people in all walks of life, and all philosophies, are beginning to understand that ‘business as usual’ is not working, and that big changes are needed in society. They see war, poverty, foreclosures, peak oil, global warming, rising energy prices, collapsing economy, etc., and they know things are getting worse and not better. They may be confused about why these things are happening and whose fault it is, but I sense nonetheless a ‘latent readiness’ for radical change in the general population.

If people are ‘ready for change’, then there is little need to ‘wake them up’ with more of the gory details of their current situation. What is needed instead are initiatives that can empower people to begin pursuing change in effective ways. Since all of the political and other institutions of our society are set up to prevent the changes we need, we must pursue those changes ourselves, ordinary people working together. In order to begin working together, we need to accept that our beliefs and philosophies are different, and realize that does not prevent us collaborating for the things we all want, like clean and safe neighborhoods, a peaceful society, and sustainable systems. You don’t need to agree on religion to build a barn together. 

all the best,

From: “Brian Hill” <>
Date: August 25, 2008 1:18:30 AM GMT+01:00
Subject: RE: Don Nordin: A Voyage Through Dark Times

Hopefully this is the hopelessness before the burst of an new age of hope.  If my memory serves, that’s what happened in the 60s.  I feel the same as Don.  And, I notice among public speakers there is a noticible tendency to be repetitive, like, the first sentence here.  I think this might be because we have reached the end of this old paradigm and are about to plunge into a new one, but we don’t know that yet.


Date: August 23, 2008 3:31:38 PM GMT+01:00
To: don nodin
Subject: re voyage

hi don, long time no see/hear – i must have dropped off your list when i changed my email address some time ago.

we who have seen the shitstorm coming for lo these many years, have not shrunk from that reality, and haven’t gone mad or killed ourselves are truly unique beings – hello brother.

the one hopeful thing that i discovered 15 or so years ago that has kept me going is open money and community currencies – a systemic solution to the money problem, which is at the root of all our problems.

when i started working with michael linton in the mid 90’s i was working on a restoration project in a clearcut in clayoquot sound – just another attempt at a wake up call, a finger in the dike while the dike is crumbling.

by that time i thought the struggle was to somehow slow the corporate juggernaut so that enough of us would see and act appropriately to bring them to heel – i know/knew it was a pipe dream but what else was there?  they have the money and we have squat.

the good news is that we are on the verge of a break through with projects in portland, vancouver and nanaimo – we now have software that enables the deployment of a money net making cc available to any community, network, association anywhere in the world. and because we still have the internet, it will spread like wildfire.

this is no pipe dream and it sure as hell helps me keep going.

in solid
skype: ernievoice
250 897 3916











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