dialog re: recent postings

2004-11-11

Richard Moore

Bcc: contributors

--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lou & Dr. Bob Wynman"
Subject: Re: Worse Than 2000: Tuesday's Electoral Disaster
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:02:50 -0800

What do you think  ... accurate, hoax or more Ominous Parallels?
 
Sound familiar?
 
      "The National Government will regard it as its first and
      foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and
      cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic
      principles on which our nation has been built. It regards
      Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and
      the family as the basis of national life."
      
      Adolph Hitler, My New World Order, Proclamation to the German
      Nation at Berlin, February 1, 1933

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:13:49 +0800
From: Betty Daly-King
Subject: re: Petition of VIPs re/9-11

Vote on CNN to question 'do you believe there is a cover up on 9/11?'

--<downloaded>--
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/
Created: Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 15:58:54 EST

Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?

Yes - 90% - 6146 votes
No - 10% - 682 votes
Total: 6828 votes

© 2004 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:24:55 -0800
To: •••@••.•••
From: Chris Thorman
Subject: Re: GLOBAL TRANSFORMATION: The liberation of human consciousness

Wow.

Leaves me breathless.

-----------

Chris,

Thanks. (Chris is our noble server maintainer, systems guru, 
and a very dear friend. Also, the only one who commented on 
the most recent chapter!  I guess if "Wow" is the only response,
that's not too bad.)

all the best,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:12:02 -0700
To: •••@••.•••, •••@••.•••
From: Jim Rough 
Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts
Cc: •••@••.•••

Hi Richard,

I read the book segments you sent with great interest. I think
the book will be a wonderful contribution. I'm looking forward
to seeing it in print. There were two primary areas of
feedback I wanted to give you.

To me the essential quality of talking and thinking needed in
a democracy is different than dialogue, discussion,
negotiation, or deliberation. I've given it the name
"choice-creating," which is described on my web site at
http://www.ToBE.net. Rather than using this term, you
addressed the issue by talking about the value of "Dynamic
Facilitation," which establishes choice-creating as a way to
help achieve "harmonization. I think this approach will prove
itself to be hearable by your audience and may be the best
approach for your purposes. I think in time people will
recognize the significance of this distinction. For the
purposes of accelerating this future into being I invite you
to use your considerable powers of description on this concept
and use this term.

I really like how you use the expression "We the People"
appropriately. It's about all-of-us-together taking charge of
our system. Most people use it non-systemically, as though "We
the People" speak when we vote, for instance. Voting is a
within-system process.

I differ with you in how to achieve a "We the People" of the
nation or the world, however. I see the need for an
overarching Wisdom Council. I don't think We the People will
happen piecemeal as you describe, as a coherence of small
group processes. To me it is a systems phenomenon ---
understanding that there is a difference between reaching ALL
THE PEOPLE and evoking WE THE PEOPLE. Bridging this difference
is what the Wisdom Council is designed to do. So, in my mind,
there needs to be a national or global Wisdom Council process.

Jim

------------------------

Dear Jim,

Very nice to hear from you. (Jim is the inventor of Dynamic
Facilitation.)

Your endorsement of the book and of the term 'harmonization'
is very welcome. I hope I can count on you for a blurb for the
book cover. I agree that 'choice-creating' best describes the
creative part of DF. Perhaps I can work that into my material.
I haven't used it so far because the meaning of the term is
not particularly self-evident, and also I'm emphasizing the
coming-together aspect of DF more than the creative aspect.

The issue of a national Wisdom Council continues to be a point
of creative tension between our perspectives. The bottom-up
approach to harmonization and the national approach are both
visionary, and neither can be proven by theory. Just as you
don't agree with the piecemeal vision, I can't agree with the
national vision. Most people probably see both visions as
being unrealistic. Perhaps my reason for going with the
piecemeal vision comes largely from my investigation into how
a transformed society would operate. From a systems
perspective, I'm convinced that a focus on the local is the
key to democracy. And I also believe that the means always
become the ends. If localism is our goal, then localism must
be our means.

I'm sure efforts on both fronts can only help!

warm regards,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
From: Catherine Breen
To: •••@••.•••

Hey Richard,

At the moment, and for as long as it takes, I am learning as
much as I can about the world behind the Matrix, both part and
present. Of course with my ignorance that will take time, but
I think it will be time well spent if I want a solid sense of
the world around me and my place within it. I also want to be
ready so that when it comes to revealing the truth to others,
I will be well equipped in my responses to their perhaps
hostile reactions/questions, because lets face it, the Matrix
is not just the world around them, it is deep in their psyche
ever since birth, living like a parasite within their
thoughts. People are not going to abandon the matrix easily,
it will take an extremely complete and convincing presentation
of fasts, such as those within your book. I have complete
faith that you can do it.

I am going to go back to your book this evening and read it
again from the beginning, slowly this time. I will read it,
not from the perspective of a person who knows nothing, as I
said before I would, but rather from the perspective of
someone whose mind still operates within the Matrix. Those
people, the vast majority, are your target audience, or should
be, and these will take the most convincing. This way I will
see what, if anything, in my opinion, needs tweaking, or if I
feel you need to expand on something, or whatever.

One major thing about the book is I feel it is vitally
important to the credibility and success of your book that to
prove everything you say as much as you can, especially the
'radical' stuff. You really do need to uses references to good
sources, otherwise people simply won't listen to or believe a
word your saying. I can't stress it enough. It took me a while
to believe you, and I consider myself open-minded compared to
most. I don't see it being much of a hassle to do, you found
the information once, you can do it again, and it won't take
nearly as long as it took you to write the book.

Another general comment is that in order to reach the public,
you will need to capture their imagination, just as Michael
Moore did. Michael Moore has the advantage of being extremely
funny and humour is one of those universally appealing things,
despite the fact that Michael Moore's topics themselves are
far from funny. You will have to identify YOUR way of
capturing the public and ensure you use it strongly in your
book because as we both know, the attention span of the public
leaves much to be desired. I will also keep this in mind as I
read it again because unfortunately, how you present your
ideas is at least as important as the actual content of the
ideas, as far as the public is concerned.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit dizzy now, told you I wasn't used 
to emailing.


Love & life,

Katt

--------

Katt,

Many thanks for your contribution. I hope you overcome your 
dizzy spell and email more often! (Katt is a student in Cork.)

The hope of the future is in the youth, and I'm so glad to see
that the spark of transformation has kindled in your soul.
Although I don't see you as being at all 'ignorant', an attitude
of 'ignorance' is by far the best attitude for learning. I find
that the 'wise and clever' on the Internet are the ones
who never seem to learn anything. 

Your points are refreshing and very much on the mark.
Yes, there will need to be references. Check out the ones
at the bottom of "Escaping the Matrix" and let me know
if you see those as being a good start. As for humor, I'm
not sure if that will work for me for this material. Michael
Moore is poking at hypocrisy, while I am trying to do
something different. Yes people need to have their imagination
captured, but they do not always need to be tickled to
accomplish that... I hope!

again, many thanks,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:23:58 -0800
From: Janet McFarland 
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To:  •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts

Hi richard, i'm sorry i wasn't able to respond to your
writing.  i got part way through and thought it was wonderful.
 i just don't have time and mental space to process much
outside my own personal life and recovery from 18 years of
marriage, get my architectural practice up and running,
keeping my spirits up so I can work, keeping my kids going. 
it sucks, actually, altho I am doing a little better all the
time.  divorce decree came through yesterday.  looking forward
to the book and someday having the mental space and actual
means to think, respond and act.  i'm sure we are looking at
another 8-10 years of increasingly worse abuse in the world
before the inner work, the local work such as you describe,
starts to make an appreciable impact in many people's daily
lives.  it's a depressing outlook.  i'm glad you have the
spirit to keep thinking and feeling and making an impact.

love,
janet

------

Dear Janet,

Your depression in the wake of the second Bush coup, and 
being overwhelmed by the demands of daily life, seem to be
experiences shared by many. Perhaps I can lend you a bit of
encouragement by challenging your estimate of "8-10 years".
The history of social revolution shows us that when change
comes, it comes surprisingly fast, catching everyone by
surprise. The collapse of the Soviet Union is one recent
example, but there are many others. Once the right meme /
movement gets started, under the right set of conditions, it
can spread like a fire in dry grass. The massive global
disillusionment with the current American regime is precisely
the 'right set of conditions' to enable rapid transformation.
The darkness brings the seeds of the dawn.

have hope,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:36:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Nick
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts

    rkm > In light of the previous paragraph, perhaps some title
      with 'guidebook' in it would be appropriate, something like
      "Global Transformation - A Guidebook". Or perhaps,
      "Harmonization and Global Transformation--a Users Guide". 
      I've also considered, "A Message to We the People". Ideas
      welcome.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot, Richard!  The first two of
those are snooze titles, virtually guaranteed to ensure a low
volume of sales. And the third one is too problematical.

I'll try to come up with an idea sometime (i'm not creative
today) but in the meantime, your current title is far superior
to those.  For one thing (and this is important), nine out of
the twelve words in the title are one-syllable words. It might
have even more appeal if it read "Global Transformation: Why
We Need It, and How We Can Get It".

Nick.

p.s. Adding the comma and de-capitalizing the conjuction were
intentional. It makes the title sound less formulaic (and may
even suggest to a potential buyer: `hmmmm, it's like I'm
getting two books!').

-----------

Dear Nick,

Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps your ideas will inspire
others(?).

At this point, I'm fairly happy with Parts II and III, all the
stuff about harmonization. As I look back over Part I (the Why
We Need It part) I'm not as happy. I'm considering using
"Escaping the Matrix" instead (available on our website,
http://cyberjournal.org), with a few modifications. That
material has been very successful... I still get enthusiastic
letters from people who run across that article. I might
even use "Escaping the Matrix" as the overall title. How
does that grab you?

thoughts?
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:52:20 -0800
From: Lynette
Subject: Re: "Now is the time for your tears"
To: •••@••.•••

What would you perceive our role to be in the face of the
elitist agenda?  I have been telling people since about 1997
that when the IMF and World Bank had completed structurally
adjusting the Third World, that they would begin on us in
North America.  Logic had to dictate this because Reagan began
undermining the American standard of living in the early
eighties with his attack on labour.  Once the unions were
decimated and workers gave corporations concessions because
they did not want to depart from materiality, the die was
cast.  The American workforce has been gutted bit by bit by
the multi-lateral corporations who are not yet done since they
have been given a mandate to continue to do so by their
electorate who apparently not only lack discernment but are
still the most politically gullible people in the world.  How
the hell else could anyone buy the bill of goods espoused by
Bush without being gullible.

I believe you are correct when you say we sit on the cusp of
chaos.  I do not believe that there is any way to avoid it
now.  I already had made my mental decision as to what I would
do facing an Orwellian scenario of surveillance and deceit.  I
have no intention of participating in such a society.  The
only way this can be prevented now is if Americans have a
revelation of what their future is going to like.  There is
still a window of opportunity, but I think the neo-cons will
slow down their agenda to lull people into false security, and
then 'will put the screws to them', so to speak just before
people think they are rid of them.  Given the huge split in
the vote, I think the neo-cons have to do this because they
knows that if they try to move too quickly now that it will
stir up those who are opposed. They still have not managed to
disarm the American people and they cannot do that forcibly
from my perspective.  My experience with Americans is that the
right to bear arms is as firmly entrenched in their psyches as
their 'cowboys and Indians' mentality.

Given the situation in the Middle East, I am inclined to agree
with you that any attack on Iran will be answered smartly by
them with whatever they think is fair.  It could start a
fracas that will eventually end up on our unsullied soil. 
Quite frankly, I think we're skewered. I hope Grandmother
Earth takes over before they get started.  We are way beyond
transformation unless there is a shift in mass consciousness
very soon.

Peace to You
Lynette

------

Dear Lynette,

Thanks for sharing your analysis with us. I agree fully with
your view that 'structural adjustment' is scheduled for the
West, just as it has been applied in the third world. This is
required by capitalism's growth imperative. Elites really have
no choice. Either they continue on their course or they must
give up capitalism. The latter is of course quite beyond their
ability to imagine, nor would they see it as being in their
selfish best interest. Their view is that we need to get rid
of 80% of the world's population. That's their answer to
resource scarcity, and that's what depleted uranium shells are
about. Our current elite has the same mentality as those who
massacred the Native Americans in order to facilitate 'Winning
the West'.

I don't believe the American people are all that gullible.
After all, Bush handily lost this last election. Massive voter
fraud was required to enable this second coup. And note above
that 90% seem to understand there is a 9/11 cover-up.  People
aren't as stupid as the media leads us to believe. One of the
missions of the media is to mislead us about the reality of
public opinion. By believing 'everyone else' is gullible, we
are in fact being a bit gullible ourselves, and I admit to
falling into that trap myself from time to time.

As for "What would you perceive our role to be?", that is of
course what my book is about. As I said to Janet above, the
conditions are highly favorable to transformation, more
favorable than at any previous time in history.

positive affirmation helps,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Keiffer"
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: "Now is the time for your tears"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:02:43 -0500

Dear Richard,

After hearing the election results I was distraught but when
Kerry conceded without so much as a jab, I knew something was
amiss.  When Kerry asked all American's to stand behind George
W. Bush, then I knew that the Democrats were in league with
the stolen election.  I thought about moving to Canada or
Europe, perhaps even South America, but that soon passed and I
am more resilient than ever to see this house of cards unfold.

There are some movements within the US to be happy with, one
such movement is for True Democracy.

http://www.populistamerica.com/home

This is what I envision:  True Democracy where every citizen
votes on every law, this movement can start at the local
level.  Local laws (eventually) will override any state laws
and local and/or state laws overriding federal laws.  No law
will be passed that takes away the rights of an individual,
protected by the Bill of Rights.

By removing the power of the few over the many I believe we
will be heading the the right direction.  It won't be easy, it
will have to have a grass roots movement, word of mouth over
the Internet, handing out flyers around the country, getting
people elected into office that will fight for the True
Democracy movement.  It will be a lot of work but I am not
willing to allow a nation as powerful as America to rule with
an iron fist over the rest of the world because of what a few
elites in America want.

I do hope this is the beginning of a mass awakening movement
in the world, over the last few years I have seen it and up
until four years ago I was also part of the sleeping world.

Regards,

Jeff

-----------

Dear Jeff,

Thanks for your contribution. I fully agree about basing
sovereignty at the local level, but I disagree about 'voting'
as being the basis of creating the rules of society. If we
vote, who decides what we vote on? If We the People don't
draft the legislation, then we are at the mercy of those who
do. Democracy needs to begin with the drafting process. And
if We the People do the drafting, why would we need to vote?
In the process of drafting we have already made our choice.

cheers,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:06:59 -0800
From: Janet McFarland 
To:  •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm: "Now is the time for your tears"

Hi Richard, thanks for your analysis. I remember 1989 when the
soviet union closed its doors.  while everyone was rejoicing I
was protesting "who will stop us now?".  Most people I know
just aren't willing to wrap their minds around the full real
situation.

As the economy gets steadily worse will we start to come
together in mutual aid and support?  My neighborhood now has
an e-tree and there is interest in community building
activities.  It would be cool if we could achieve some unity
here where classes and people of different colors live side by
side, at least until the weakest get gentrified out.

The middle class has been running on fear for their personal
well-being for so many years now without really asking why
they feel so threatened. If there could be a clear defeat
maybe we could start to act in solidarity, but I don't think
we're there yet.

I'll pray for the coup!

Love
Janet

--------

Janet, hello again!

The evidence seems to be that the coup isn't going to happen.
It seems to have only expressed itself in the many, many
whistleblower accounts leading up to the non-election.

I am intrigued by your neighborhood e-tree and interest in
community building. It would be great if you could encourage a
harmonization session in your community.

Below are some useful links for such a purpose.

best regards,
rkm

http://cyberjournal.org/cj/authors/tree/DynamicFacilitation.Group.html"
  Tree Bressen, "Dynamic Facilitation for Group Transformation"

http://www.ToBe.net/"
  Jim Rough's Dynamic Facilitation workshops
  
http://www.rvwc.org/"
  Rogue Valley Wisdom Council

http://www.co-intelligence.org/CIPol_Index.html
  Tom Atlee's politics and democracy pages: 

http://www.democracyinnovations.org/"
  Co-Intelligence, Democracy and Holistic Politics and Innovations in Democracy

http://www.co-intelligence.org/S-Canadaadvrsariesdream.html"
  A Canadian experiment in citizen's councils

http://thataway.org/index.html"
  National Coalition for Dialogue and Deliberation

--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bernd Hamm"
To: •••@••.•••
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:42:41 +0100
Subject: Re: Worse Than 2000: Tuesday's Electoral Disaster

Dear Richard,

thank you very much for this - i do distribute the article and use it in 
my teaching.

All the best, Bernd

--------------

Dear Bernd,

Nice to hear from you. I'm glad you're making use of the material published 
here. 
That's what it's for. Plug for your new book below.

best regards,
rkm

      Devastating Society - The Neo-Conservative Assault on
      Democracy and Justice, edited by Bernd Hamm. London: Pluto
      2005 (january), 320 pp., ISBN: 0745323618 £ 17.99 / US$ 26.95
      PAPER

--------------------------------------------------------
From: jim Macgregor
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:19:55 EST
Subject: Re: Worse Than 2000: Tuesday's Electoral Disaster
To: •••@••.•••

Dear Richard,

many thanks for subscribing me to your mailing list.  I had
read Palast's stuff and this other material is additional
dynamite. 

A few of us here in Scotland are plugging away and  I recently
wrote to The Herald (Scotland's broadsheet) suggesting the
elite were neo-fascist.  A flurry of correspondence followed. 
I attach a follow up letter from John O'Dowd which is
undoubtedly the longest The Herald has ever published. It
would be nice to see correspondence from you.

I keep in regular touch with John who has a great interest in
American politics and has been helping me to a better
understanding. Would it be possible for you to add him to your
mailing list also, or would you rather he contacted you
first? 

If you have any other Scottish contacts, perhaps we could get
in touch. 

If you are considering a visit across here at any time, it
would be great if we could meet you. 

kind regards
jim

--------

Dear Jim,

Congratulations on getting the dialog started in The Herald. I'd love to get 
to Scotland sometime, but alas money is tight again!  

someday,
rkm

--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Dr John O'Dowd"
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Cyberjournal
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:46:49 -0000

Hello Richard,
 
My friend Dr Jim MacGregor directed me to you - and thanks to
Jim for that.  I really enjoyed your Matrix metaphor - it
works really well.  I have subscribed to your theory for many
years, but have rarely seen it expressed so lucidly.  I  have
many of the books you refer to,  ( and a good collection of
Chomky, Gore Vidal, Pilger), and in particular I am enjoying
Howard Zinn's History of the American People, Chalmers
Johnson's Blowback and The Sorrows of Empire.  I also found
Todd's After The Empire  useful in parts, and have a good
regular read at ZNet and Palast, Monbiot etc.  Enjoying your
site too now -thanks to Jim.  The web is really helping us all
make the right connections.

I've published a number of letters recently in the Herald
Glasgow much along your lines (but you cannot overstep a
hidden mark - or you don't get published - mainstream - part
of the Matrix )

Keep up the great work,
 
Best,
 
John O'Dowd

-----------

Dear John,

Thanks for your note. I've subscribed you to the list. Thanks also 
for the various references.

stay in touch,
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Tony Oí Reilly
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: The liberation of human consciousness
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:29:13 +0000

Richard, 

Despite my downbeat and negative email of yesterday, I'm just
writing to say Congratulations on the last chapter of the
book!

I know you intend rewriting some of it, but it must feel nice
anyway to have emailed out the last segment.

I look forward to having the final product in my hand... maybe
I will be able to use it to 'recruit' a like-minded individual
or two.

If anyone reads your book and is inspired or encouraged by it,
then that's a person I could work with.

And I really believe that we need people to work with. My
ideas of starting discussion groups got nowhere because I
can't do it on my own. People who 'achieve' have supporting
teams behind them.

Look at what the Skull & Bones society 'achieves'. Look at
what the neocon nutters have 'achieved'. They work together
and stick together.

Individuals forming groups forming networks - it seems to work
for the 'bad guys'. Let's hope one day it will work for the
good.

Again, well done for the book, 

Tony,
Cork.

----------

Tony,

Nice as always to hear from you, and thanks for the
encouragement. I know what you mean about needing someone to
work with. Hopefully you and Katt may be able to work
together. And I'm not that far away if I can contribute.

best regards,
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------

-- 

============================================================
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Richard Moore (rkm)
Wexford, Ireland

"Global Transformation: Whey We Need It And How We Can Achieve It", current 
draft:
    http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/rkmGlblTrans.html
_____________________________
    "...the Patriot Act followed 9-11 as smoothly as the
      suspension of the Weimar constitution followed the
      Reichstag fire."  
      - Srdja Trifkovic

    There is not a problem with the system.
    The system is the problem.

    Faith in ourselves - not gods, ideologies, leaders, or programs.
_____________________________
"Zen of Global Transformation" home page: 
    http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/

QuayLargo discussion forum:
    http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ShowChat/?ScreenName=ShowThreads

cj list archives:
    http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=cj

newslog list archives:
    http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists=newslog
_____________________________
Informative links:
    http://www.indymedia.org/
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/
    http://www.MiddleEast.org
    http://www.rachel.org
    http://www.truthout.org
    http://www.williambowles.info/monthly_index/
    http://www.zmag.org
    http://www.co-intelligence.org
============================================================

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