dialog to 3 May 2007


Richard Moore

Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: newslog: 16 Apr - 22 Apr
To: •••@••.•••

Dear Richard,

Re: 4/22/07 "Crisis...Radicalized Citizenry"

To the question of why there is no rioting in the 
streets of America:  go to 
<http://www.Prisonplanet.com> when you have some 

It has been my theory for some years now: the 
people of the United States lost their beloved 
republic on 11/22/1963 with the murder of JFK in 
front of millions of people.  The proof to this 
loss; the official story with Oswald still 
stands and even more, Bobby Kennedy was removed 
as well as MLK.

I am also a believer in the possibility of a 
secret government in force for which nobody has 
ever voted.  These unseen, invisibly-cloaked 
criminals, are beginning to make mistakes, most 
of which:  They underestimate the American People.

I am a middle-aged mom who is also an Activist. 
It may seem nothing is happening in America; yet 
as one of many who has participated in civil 
activities since 2002, I wish to inform you there 
is a growing tide of disgust rising from the 
flood of watered-down  freedoms. I would also 
predict with the latest US Atty scandal, there 
may be a tsunami, yet!

As John Adams said: "Revolution was in the hearts 
and minds of the people."  And, how long did it 
take to finally convince the Colonists to rebuke 
their powerful King George?  Does anyone know the 
answer?  The day finally dawned when it was 
enough for them.

Would anyone agree with me:  most of the crimes 
listed within The Declaration of Independence, 
have already come true Presently? Haven't we been 
burdened enough with this latest incarnation of 
HRH King George?

For the great majority of Americans that I know, 
the answer is a resounding, "YES!"


Diana Skipworth


Hi Diana,

Thanks for your observations.

As regards the elimination of the Kennedy's, 
don't forget John Jr., whose  death was no less 
mysterious and convenient (to GW Bush's 
campaign), but which received less attention.

As regards convincing the Colonists to rebuke 
King George, much of the credit goes to Thomas 
Paine, whose "Common Sense" came out early in 
1776 and broke all previous publishing records 
for number of copies sold.

As regards the Declaration of Independence, as 
you indicate, it applies as much now as it did in 
1776. The US can be seen as a spin-off of the 
British Empire, controlled by the 
banking-capitalist elite from the beginning, 
having shed the constraints of the Crown and the 


Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:53:52 -0700
From: marc bombois <•••@••.•••>
Subject: wee essay
To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••>

There seems to be no doubt that climate change is 
happening. The question is, what are we going to 
do about it? Many courses of action have been 
proposed, perhaps most famously by Al Gore in his 
documentary "An Inconvenient Truth". 
Unfortunately, Al Gore infamously avoids pointing 
the finger at the corporate perpetrators of 
global pollution, never mentions the culpability 
of unfettered capitalism where "shareholder 
value" and profit are all that matter, planet be 
damned. And never in the debate that rages around 
this issue is the root cause of environmental 
degradation ever mentioned: the financial system.

The financial system demands and drives the 
"growth" imperative which is laying waste to our 
mother Earth while transferring our public wealth 
into private pockets. The debt-based money and 
banking system is controlled by an elite few 
whose greed knows no bounds and whose thirst for 
absolute power now threatens our planet and 
indeed our very lives. Public ignorance of the 
financial system has resulted in this dangerous 
concentration of power. We can make all the 
personal lifestyle changes we want, and I too 
have made many, but they are futile as long as 
the elite-controlled money system remains in 

So the debate around climate change is 
diversionary and peripheral. The question should 
really be, how do we put a stop to the elite's 
agenda? Imagine if instead of being fascinated by 
Al Gore's traveling picture show, we clamoured to 
learn about how the elite control our lives via a 
clever little scam called banking? How elite 
control of the media diverts our attention away 
from the truth? How the elite's financial system 
manufactures and guarantees poverty, hunger, 
homelessness, and yes, environmental degradation? 
Things would be very different very soon. But 
until that happens, more of the same.

While people want to live their lives in peace 
and prosperity and in a clean environment, it's 
obvious that the elite have the opposite in mind 
and they must be stopped. If we can do that, then 
we can address the challenge of climate change 
intelligently and cooperatively, peacefully and 
sustainably. We simply cannot expect the 
warmongering elite to do it when they are the 
perpetrators. We must point the finger at the 
core of our troubles: the elite and their brutal 
money system.

Marc Bombois
Vice-president, Canadian Action Party


Hi Marc,

Thanks, very good points. I've reviewed the 
documentary you gave me, "Money as Debt". 
Everyone should see it! We'll be showing this at 
our local Documentary Society. It can be viewed 
on Google:

It can also be ordered as a DVD:

One of the film's observations is that the 
ultimate source of value for our money is the 
'promise to pay' of those who borrow from banks. 
That is, when we sign a mortgage, we bring that 
much money-value into existence. That may sound 
paradoxical, and the value of the film is that it 
makes this notion understandable, with the help 
of charming cartoon fables.

In some sense then, our money can be said to be 
'trust based' (trust that repayments will be 
made). Ironically, community transactions can 
also be based on trust, but without banks as 
intermediaries. Perhaps an understanding that our 
current system is based on trust, and not gold, 
might give us more courage to create our own 
exchange systems.


From: "Jeff Jewell" <•••@••.•••>
To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: FW: The global-warming discussion: what are the lessons?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:59:34 -0700

Dear Richard,

Thanks for the compliments [in a private dialog 
-rkm], which mean a great deal to me because I 
have such high admiration of the brilliance of 
both your analysis and capacity to explain 
complex concepts with such clarity and power.  Of 
course there are some differences in our 
perceptions and conclusions, but we both try to 
explore these with respect and open-mindedness.

I agree that the potential exists for modern 
technology to better serve both people and the 
planet.  Primarily this requires corporate 
control over technological development and 
deployment to be broken, or closely regulated-at 
least by taking away the fundamentally perverse 
but today virtually essential business strategy 
of externalizing costs, which effectively 
commands irresponsible social and environmental 

This reminds me of Jonathan Larson, who you may 
know, whose main concept is something he calls 
Elegant Technology.  It's been many years since I 
was in touch with him (I met him on the web 
around the same time I discovered you), and it's 
probably worth checking out where he's at:


Poor Cuba has suffered so much under American 
sanctions, which hopefully will be ended soon-but 
hopefully not with subjugation to pre-Castro 
conditions.  Under severe imposed deprivations, 
Cubans have done remarkably well and have shown 
the world that happiness and good health can be 
achieved very well (and by many metrics even 
better than in the USA) without current 
technology and more advanced development.  But 
there's not much chance that people in any 
advanced nation would voluntarily accept major 
hardships or decline in standard of living-nor 
should they need to.

Progress should be possible to maintain 
long-term, with continual advancement in 
standards of living everywhere, by putting the 
plutocrats on a wealth-diet and cleaning up our 
act through intelligent and responsible use of 
technology and development.

Cheers to you,


Hi Jeff,

I think you underestimate somewhat the changes 
needed -- both political and economic -- to 
become sustainable.

It will not be possible to reduce the power of 
corporations without changing our whole system of 

It will not be possible to achieve sustainability 
while we continue to use cars and highways as our 
primary transport.

The question of "accepting major hardships" is 
very context dependent. If, as many expect, a 
global economic collapse is approaching, then our 
understanding of the relationship between 
'hardship' and 'change' would be quite different. 
Also, if we succeed in creating democratic 
societies, then we would have responsibility for 
our economy, and not just be consumers. With 
responsibility, we would have a different 
understanding of the relationship between 
'hardship' and 'sustainability', and a different 
understanding of 'progress'.

Personally, I wouldn't consider it a hardship if 
we moved toward a society not dependent on 
automobiles, air travel, and long-distance 
imports. How many of our 'benefits' are illusory, 
'manufactured needs'?


Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:01:51 -0500
To: •••@••.•••
From: Cameron McLaughlin <•••@••.•••>
Subject: re: Wexford Documentary Society

I recommend a two-part series by David Suzuki on 
the Cuban organic agricultural revolution which 
was recently shown on Canadian television. I have 
a copy from a member of a New York community 
gardening list by way of a Canadian friend who 
taped it for us, but I don't know about whether 
you might run afoul of the copyright laws by 
making further copies for distribution. It 
depends on what you plan to do with it. Maybe you 
could contact CBC about whether it is available 
through them for noncommercial use.

You might contact •••@••.••• to see 
whether he would copy it for you for a small fee. 
He was kind enough to copy and send it to me for 
personal use. My own copy has been lent out.

I've seen several amazing 9-11 short films 
lately. If you could post a list of what you 
already have, maybe I have something to add. I 
saw most but not all on YouTube. The ones at 
Google were of course spiked and removed within 

Cameron McLaughlin


Hi Cameron,

Our 'Documentary Society' is strictly non profit 
and small scale. I don't think copyright is a big 
issue. In most cases I've been buying DVDs at 
full price; if I get a few copies as well I don't 
see any great harm. I can't deal with tapes 
though, it has to be DVD.

Youtube and Google are not very useful to us 
because of the low-resolution of the videos. DVDs 
are what we need. I encourage everyone to please 
let me know what DVDs you can recommend or that 
you might be able to copy.


From: "Jim Bell" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>,
Cc: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: dialog re: What are the lessons?
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:47:38 -0700

Here's my latest.
Please share far and wide.



From: Jim Bell, Ecological Designer
http://www.jimbell.com, •••@••.•••, 
http://www.myspace.com/jimbellelsi, (619) 758 9020


We have to get right with each other and with our 
planet's life-support system. If we don't do this 
soon, our planet's life support system will fail 
in some fundamental way. Global warming has 
caught our attention of late, but we are harming 
our planet's life-support system on so many 
levels, there are plenty of ways we may trigger a 
serious life-support system failure if global 
warming doesn't do it.

Whatever the tipping point -- if from a single 
cause or a combination of causes -- a serious 
life-support system failure will be hurtful to 
everyone and all life. And if serious enough, 
cause the extinction of the human family and most 
of the other life forms that share this planet 
with us.

As I write this I look around at my life. While 
I'm far from living a completely life-support 
sustaining life, I've come a long way from the 
person who rationalized that I was creating jobs 
when I threw trash out of my car or on the 
ground. Now I pick up other people's trash, 
recycle everything I can, drive as little as 
possible in a 1989 Geo Metro still getting 40 mpg 
and I'm vegan.

But more important than my personal journey to 
live more consciously, is my work to create a 
world where we can all live and make decent 
livings in ways that protect human health and the 
health of the only life-support system we have; a 
world easily and completely powered by renewable 
energy; a world where everything is designed to 
be easily recycled and harmless to human and 
life-support system health.


First, I want to apologize for all the world's 
problems my generation and those before us are 
leaving you to solve. But that's the past and we 
can't do anything about it now.

What I've been doing since I realized that the 
human family is destroying its life-support 
system and what I recommend you do, is to learn 
as much as you can, as fast as you can, about how 
our planet's life-support system works. Then use 
that knowledge to create life-support sustaining 
economies and ways of life wherever we live and, 
ultimately, planet-wide. If you have access to 
the web you can find my work on this subject at 

Bottom line, I'm motivated to help you develop a 
sustainable future wherever you live on our 
planet. The source of my motivation is that the 
more conscious I've become, the more I care about 
people and feel connected to them. I especially 
feel connected to young people and future 
generations. I have also come to care about the 
process of consciousness becoming as it is 
manifesting in us as individuals and in the human 
family as a whole. A serious life-support system 
collapse would certainly set the process of the 
human family becoming more conscious back, if not 
end it all together.

The goal of my life is to help you avoid such 
calamities so please feel free to call on me for 
help in gaining the knowledge you need to create 
a life-support sustaining future. The human 
family has come so far. Why blow it now by not 
paying attention to life-support system health? 
Especially considering it will be better for us 
economically to develop life-support sustaining 
economies than to stay with the status quo. 
Additionally, developing sustainable economies 
will result in communities, regions, states and 
countries becoming renewable energy, water and 
food self-sufficient, thus insuring that these 
essentials will be available locally no matter 
what happens to the supply and price of these 
essentials in national and global markets.

If we use our minds and follow our hearts to get 
ourselves past the rough spot we are going 
through now, there will be no limit to what the 
human family may accomplish and where in the 
universe we may go. If we don't get past it we 
will certainly lose a lot of ground and may even 
be stopped in our tracks as in extinct.


While everyone needs to help create a prosperous 
and life-support sustaining future, people with 
wealth are in the unique position to accelerate 
the process.

Many wealthy people donate money to improve the 
common good. Bill and Melinda Gates, and through 
them, Warren Buffett are the latest notables in a 
long line of philanthropists who've donated money 
to improve the public good. Up to now, the lion's 
share of Gates Foundation help has gone to 
improving world health with a focus on children 
and AIDS -- and education, with a focus on high 

While this help is good and needed, we have to 
realize that to sustain the gains we make on 
these levels, we must develop life-support 
sustaining economies and ways of life wherever 
people live and ultimately planet wide. If we do, 
efforts to improve public health and education 
will be sustained. If we don't, any gains we 
achieve in health and education or on similar 
fronts -- will not long stand.

This is where I come in. I know how to gracefully 
transform non-sustainable economies into 
prosperous economies that are completely 
life-support sustaining. I've published two books 
on the subject and both books are available free 
on my web site at http://www.jimbell.com. I 
suggest you start by clicking on "Jim's New 
Book." The book's title is Creating a Sustainable 
Economy and Future On Our Planet - The San 
Diego/Tijuana Region - A Case Study. Although the 
book focuses on the San Diego/Tijuana region 
where I live, the design principles behind the 
economic plan the book develops can be applied to 
create life-support sustaining economies anywhere 
on our planet.

What I need now are people and money to expand my 
on-going educational programs. These programs, 
workshops and classes focus on teaching people 
how their planet's life-support system works and 
how that knowledge can be used to create 
prosperous and completely life-support sustaining 
economies wherever they live, and ultimately, 
planet wide.

Well that's my pitch. Check me out. If you 
believe I'm on the right track and want to help, 
let's sit down and discuss how we can work 
together to create a happy, healthy, prosperous 
and life-support sustaining future; the most 
important birthright we can pass on to our young 
and future generations.


However far in the future you are when you read 
this, the fact that you are reading it probably 
means that people early in the 21st Century got 
it together well enough to avoid any serious 
life-support system collapse. It gives me 
pleasure to imagine you living happily in a 
completely life-support sustaining world where 
the growth of consciousness is accelerating and 
the human family is living not only on earth, but 
throughout our galaxy and even beyond.

Jim Bell

619 758 9020, www.jimbell.com, 

Mail: 4862 Voltaire St., San Diego, CA 92107- 2108


Hooray Jim!

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:17:35 -0700
Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy...
From: Radical Press <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>

Hi Richard.

These guys at riseup were taken over by the 
Zionist forces years ago. Troskyists, 
Communists/Marxist/Leninists are the order of the 
day. Don't mention Jews out of the politically 
correct context and don't even breath a word 
about dismantling that thorn in the side of human 
dignity and global peace - "Israel". Can't see 
why you're promoting them. They're way behind and 
beyond the scope of your own discussions. They're 
inbred to the point of being dysfunctional.

Peace & Light,

Arthur Topham
Radical Press

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 12:01:57 -0500
To: •••@••.•••
From: "Raging Grannie (Wanda B)" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy...

Thought that might be the case - took over to 
listserv already set up on riseup and have found 
them not responsive to questions about operation.

From: "Claudia Rice" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>, "rkm" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: getting on riseup not quite that easy...
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:10:44 -1000

try http://www.care2.com  They have free email and support progressive causes.

From: "John Lowry" <•••@••.•••>
To: "Richard Moore" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning'
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:03:09 -0700

You seem really resentful of the "elites."  I 
share anger at their irresponsibility.  They 
accept too much of what"must be done" to get 
along, and too little of what "could be done" to 
make things better.  And while they believe it's 
a sin to let a sucker keep his money, it is true 
that it is very difficult to accrue capital and 
very easy to dissipate it.  Even "elites" can act 
for altruistic reasons. imho.


Hi John,

We need to distinguish between acts -- as 
individuals -- of wealthy and influential people, 
and acts of elites in their role within the power 
structure. I don't consider any individual to be 
an 'enemy', but I do think of the elite regime as 
the enemy of humanity. When we see elite 
'humanitarian interventions' and 'responses to 
global warming' we are seeing wolves in sheep's 


Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:29:14 -0700
From: CyberBrook <•••@••.•••>
To:  •••@••.•••
CC:  •••@••.•••,  •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning'

   rkm: (4) The belief that we live in a democracy is perhaps
        the most disempowering myth of our era.

Yes, but the belief that we live in an elite 
totalitarian dictatorship (for lack of a better 
can be an equally very disempowering myth.
    There is tremendous elite control, to be sure, 
but there are also democratic flowers blooming in 
the cracks of the edifices. So as not to 
disempower ourselves and others, and so as to be 
best able to take appropriate action based on 
fuller understandings, we need to recognize the 
interaction effects between and amongst the 
buildings and the flowers.---Dan (Eco-Eating at 


Hi Dan,

Yes, there seem to be sprouts of democracy afoot, 
and our time may be nigh. That does not change 
the nature of the regime we are living under in 
the meantime. It is no myth that this regime is 
fully under the thumb of elite cliques. 
Recognizing that we need to escape from the 
regime, and not struggle within its framework, 
helps empower us to properly nurture the 
promising sprouts.


From: "Howard Switzer" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning'
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:40:07 -0500

Richard, you speak my mind and heart with this 
piece.  My memory has me creating one of my own 
models when I was 14 years old. (resolving the 
rift or disassociations between religion and 
science) Thank you for this excellent description 
of beliefs and learning. 

Howard Switzer

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:58:46 +0100
From: "Andrew Curry" <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm: some thoughts re/ 'Beliefs and Learning'


I appreciated your post on learning but it also 
made me think some more about the "elite" view 
here. I've been following this debate, but not as 
closely as I might. So apologies if I'm repeating 
something in a post I've missed.

But imagining this from a well-informed elite 
perspective, however, one might take the view 
that the argument that sits 'behind' climate 
change - regardless of cause - is the argument 
about resource shortage, which has similarities 
with climate change (rich people consume 
resources, poor people suffer) but without most 
of the potential "mitigations". Unlike climate 
change, which is open to argument about 
market-based and (apparently) relatively painless 
solutions such as emissions trading, resource 
shortage has only one painful solution; reduce 
consumption. And quickly.

If I was faced with these large global threats, 
again imagining it from an elite perspective, I 
know the ground I'd want to fight on.

BTW, along these lines can I recommend the book 
Beyond Terror, which looks at the "war on 
terrorism" from the underlying causes of 
instability? I wrote a summary on my blog a 
couple of days ago at, 




Hi Andrew,

If we want to think from a US elite point of 
view, I suggest we need to step back a few meters 
and look at a much broader canvas.

On the bigger canvas the main feature, in my 
view, is the problem of seeking to maintain 
global hegemony in the face of a volatile global 
economy, resource pressures of all kinds, an 
emerging Sino-Russian super power, and with China 
dominating global manufacturing.

Global warming and terrorism don't show up as 
concerns. Rather they show up as solutions.

Terrorism ( ala Al Qaeda) is a fabricated 
illusion whose purpose is to justify those 
measures needed to solve the real problems. A 
police-state apparatus will be very useful when 
the US population experiences economic collapse, 
and masses of people will be assigned to work 
camps. An interventionist military is useful to 
maximize the percentage of remaining global 
resources US elites can control, both for 
financial gain and for the power advantage they 
gain by controlling who gets access to what.

Part of the strategy, from various items I've 
seen, is to largely exclude the Global South from 
access to global resources, so the resources can 
be monopolized by the North.  It's like the 
American Indians all over again. As the nation 
moved west, the natives were moved to 
resource-poor reservations, and the resource-rich 
areas become the property of the advancing 
Europeans. What the natives got to eat and live 
in was what the government chose to dole out to 
them. Many didn't survive. With the South, the 
global regime is creating 'in situ reservations' 
by leaving the natives where they are, taking for 
the North whatever local resources are wanted, 
and doling out to the South as little as 
possible. Genocide (once again) is obviously part 
of the scenario, currently to the tune of 6 
million children a year. Expanding water 
privatization will be a major nail in the coffin.

The global warming project contributes directly 
to this Southern Strategy of usurpation and 
depopulation. The ball is already rolling with 
carbon credits and biofuels. Carbon trading is a 
scam that transfers money from Northern 
corporations to Northern banks (ie, the money 
will mostly go to pay off Southern debts to the 
IMF et al), and in return for this 'benefit to 
the South', the South relinquishes access to oil 
and the  North gets to burn more of it. The 
biofuel program is a scam that usurps 
agricultural land in the South, reducing the 
South's food dole, and using that land to produce 
biofuels so as to extend the life of the 
remaining petroleum. This is already launched on 
a wholesale basis in Brazil.

all is not what it seems,

Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:05:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Diana Skipworth <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
To: •••@••.•••

See, Richard?

This is why you get 'high' email once in a while...

You see something like this, light coming down 
the tunnel, and you dare to hope it is not yet 
another train.

So many people on YouTube give me hope (although 
I debate a lot).   It is such a wonderful way to 
put things out there, and probably more effective 
than a letter to the editor, because of the reach.

Because I have personally been healed by prayer 
about 30 years ago, I cannot help but believe in 
divine aid when the intention is pure.

I think our intention is the source of our power, 
and just look at the power of Senator Gravel.



Hi Diana,

Yes, the power of intention. It mobilizes resources beyond our knowing.

If there is power in the universe, and if one is 
able to connect with it, that is something that 
is 'real', that deserves to be acknowledged, as 
you have done. Then comes the question of how we 
interpret the experience. A Muslim would say he 
was 'touched by Allah', and the experience would 
confirm the reality of what he has been taught 
about Allah. Religions, at one level, can be seen 
as attempts to claim ownership over spiritual 
experience, and to define the meaning of that 
experience. I'm uncomfortable with the word 
'divine', at least as it is usually used, in that 
it posits a difference in kind between human 
consciousness and some other kind of 
consciousness, a consciousness possessed by some 
superior kind of being, a 'divine' being. I 
prefer to think we are like children, and 
achieving divine consciousness is the direction 
we need to be growing toward, rather than 
thinking we are an inherently limited species.

who really knows?

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Klausmann <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
To: •••@••.•••

I'm shocked and awed! He has been in obscurity up 
until the debates, and I can't believe they let 
him stand on stage. I've looked over some of the 
other videos on youtube and his website has good 
info as well. It seems he has virtually no 
finances at this point, put that might change. 
This is the kind of guy that the Diebold machines 
were made to protect the Elite against....


From: david moore <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:43:24 -1000

well, for what it's worth, there's the guy to vote for !!!
dave moore

Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Downing <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
To: •••@••.•••

Thanks Rich. Now I know who I'd support for President.


From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:16:23 -0800
Organization: Institute  for Cultural Ecology

There's lots of support by thinking people.  To 
bad thinking has little to do with the system.

From: "Diana Jewell" <•••@••.•••>
To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:12:33 -0700

Gravel got some coverage in mainstream media--on CNN he was treated like a
nut-case, just as is Denis Kucinich, so it's unlikely they will have any
real effect.  They treat them like the typical comic relief or cat-up-a-tree


From: "John Lowry" <•••@••.•••>
To: "Richard Moore" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:38:42 -0700

             rkm > Is he a 'threat to the system'?

It looks now like he's being used to show how 
open and fair the system is. But, if the 
"leading" candidates just don't sound credible, 
who knows how things will develop  ;-}

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:27:28 -0500
To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>
From: "A. Gayle Hudgens, PhD" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Mike Gravel

Here is another link for those whose Internet 
connection makes it difficult to watch video on 
their computers.

From: Bill Ellis <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:21:21 -0400
To: •••@••.•••

Yes !  Gravel and Richardson give some hope that the USA could be revived.
Even if neither become president they are worth 
supporting just to get the message out.


Bill Ellis

If you would like more on the GaianParadigm see:

Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:52:05 -0500
To: •••@••.•••
From: "Raging Grannie (Wanda B)" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Amazing words from Sen. Gravel - video

I agree - but here's what a staunch local 
Democrat sent our list about this -I haven't 
checked it out.

         Unfortunately ex-Senator Gravel would like to lock in place
         the Bush Administration's 'middle class' punishing taxation
         system by his regressive 'fair tax' proposal.
             I simply do not understand why any so-called progressive :-)
         would support him!
             During the 2006 election cycle only Minnesota's most
         reactionary candidate, Michele Bachman from CD6, supported
         the regressive 'Fair Tax' system. I would not be surprised
         if both of them also supports Social Security reform via
         'privatization'. Fortunately there are going to be many more
         opportunities before the Primary to ask Mr. Gravel himself!
         An instant Iraq exit proposal does not mean equivocal
         support for America's working people.
         -- George


Hi Rager,

I copied the following from Gravel's "Fair Tax" 
proposal on his website. Unfortunately, he seems 
to be a one-trick pony, as far as 'admirable 
policy' goes, and he couldn't be more mainstream, 
pro-growth, etc...


    * "Soak the rich" is one approach, but it never
         happens regardless of whether the liberals or
         conservatives hold political power. The wealthy have
         the money to game the system.
    * "Tax the corporations" is another approach, but
         corporate taxes are built into the cost of products
         or services, so consumers are actually paying those
         taxes, too. It's a hidden sales tax.
             I subscribe to a sales tax system, most of which is included
         in what is called the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax meets the
         fairness criteria: simplicity, transparency and no


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