From: “Claudia Woodward-Rice”Date: 25 December 2009 19:55:54 GMTTo: “‘Richard Moore'” <•••@••.•••>Subject: RE: escaping the matrix
Hi Richard- thanks for the thoughtful response. And I hope you’re not too discouraged since I’ve found people who begin questioning conventional ‘wisdom’ do so in fits and starts. I admire your willingness to get so deeply into climate details- it’s a very complex system, the science on all sides seems to be questionable (seeking to prove a pet conclusion), and it will probably take many years for results to occur. We do know we’re in the midst of a major extinction event, that supplies of fresh water are rapidly being depleted etc. There is much we can agree on and try to prepare for. I’ve just put the whole climate shebang to the side- as a divisive issue useful to polluters and banksters. Threats are real, whatever the causes.Our family is planning to move from Hawaii to WA state this next year and I’ve found http://www.oly-wa.us/transitionolympia/ to be an interesting site. The Transitions Towns movement is international, the US site is http://transitionus.org/ Local cooperation and general ‘hunkering down’ is what I see as the way forward. <snip> Regardless of “climate” change, we know for sure we will be facing enormous changes in our environment, political/environmental/social. I’m happy some are addressing the psycho/social impacts. They can be painful.Having long ago been alienated by the “susceptibility of liberals to mass-media propaganda” I’m more simpatico with people who do things like farmers. I’m sure my friends are sick of me forwarding articles etc pointing out how Obama is continuing most of the same policies as Bush, but I’ll keep doing it, and I’ll also value them for their insights in other areas. Hope is hard to give up, even when it’s false hope. Reality is not its opposite, just what we have to work with.Merry Christmas- Tell us more about Ireland sometime!Claudia
Thank you for starting this new thread. No, I’m not discouraged. And if I were it would because the Earth is being destroyed and we’re already deep into fascism, not because of the discussion here. Where there is life there is hope.
Actually, I’m glad people are concerned with climate change and peak oil, despite the fact those are not imminent threats, if it causes them to pursue localization and the transition movement. Those are the right solutions to our real problems. For example, this is a great quote from your Olympia URL:
Peak Oil: “I say this because I detect in this strident plea the desperate wish to keep our “Happy Motoring” utopia running by means other than oil and its byproducts. But the truth is that no combination of solar, wind and nuclear power, ethanol, biodiesel, tar sands and used French-fry oil will allow us to power Wal-Mart, Disney World and the interstate highway system — or even a fraction of these things — in the future. We have to make other arrangements” — James Howard Kunstler – author of Long Emergency and World Made by Hand.
We have lots of oil left, but it will probably run out someday (although the Russians dispute this with their abiotic discoveries). The actions being pursued by the Bilderberger crowd (cap & trade etc.) have nothing to do with Co2, but are in fact schemes to manage the remaining oil and maximize their profits from it. This article I published two years ago is turning out to be very prophetic, although I assumed then that Hillary would get elected, because the Bilderberger’s Obama machine had not gotten into high gear yet:
The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis
From: “Madeline Bruce”Date: 25 December 2008 20:16:28 GMTTo: <•••@••.•••>Subject: Re: escaping the matrix
Getting people to think is a good thing, for sure. Another issue we are facing, unsuccessfully, is getting people to interact, and cooperate. On the supposedly interactive sights that I am seeing, there is a disconnect between what each person is contributing. This has been taken to the nth degree in the “forums” leading up to the Health Care Insurance Reform Decision in the United States. The powers that be have a great deal invested in upturning any honest discussion, about anything. The more honest, well-meaning people gather together, and talk together, the better, because every manner of discourse is slipping away and becoming a lost art. Throwing facts at each other is beside the point. The novelist Charles Dickens pointed this out a long time ago, with his characterization of Mr. Gradgrind, and his “teachings” (not). – Madeline Bruce, Nanaimo, B. C. Canada.
Thanks for bringing in the dialog issue. I agree with you completely. That is the one essential ingredient missing from the localization movement. Wherever the movement gets started, they bring in the environmentalists, the community activists, and the organic farmers, and then the growth stops. It becomes yet-another factional initiative. Nowhere, that I know of, has significant progress toward local sustainability been achieved. So sad.
Equally sad is the dialog / facilitation community. They have been taken in by Obama’s phony “public engagement” initiative. Obama is so, so much more dangerous than Bush ever was.
From: amelia roacheDate: 26 December 2009 04:43:24 GMTTo: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>Subject: rationality, sensibility, common sense, facts
rkm: “The fact that so many people still think Obama is on their side is clear evidence that rationality plays no role in beliefs.”…
People of the US culture (maybe in particular), these days tend to rationalize in order to believe something!Herein, an opportunity to note the differences in beliefs and values, blind ambition and trust.I find that you are an example of someone who is driven by what he believes and values. Beyond the facts you gather, encouragement toward sensibility, and offer of intelligent, competent communication – your heart shines through.Much love to you Richard,Amelia
The US is special. More than anywhere else it is the land of illusion and fantasy. It was founded on a myth and it lives by myth. Always ruled by elites, it thinks it is a democracy. Always pursuing wars of conquest, it thinks it has been defending itself. The symbols of America are Hollywood and Disneyland. The people are so easily led by the nose that the propaganda has become simplistic, as compared to the much more sophisticated propaganda the BBC finds necessary in order to deceive the British.
many thanks for your kind words,
Here we have a very interesting message, from someone who isn’t subscribed to any of my lists. He must have received one of my postings via a forward. Notice the desire to avoid all dialog, and the refusal to respond to the arguments I put forward in my posting. I also find it ironic that he mentions Socrates, who was all about challenging beliefs with logic.
From: •••@••.•••Date: 26 December 2009 18:07:11 GMTTo: •••@••.•••Subject: Do Not Reply
Dear Richard,Please unsubscribe me from any and all your lists.And, for Christ’s sake, read a basic ecology textbook, e.g., Miller, Living in the Environment or ?’s War on the Greens. I shall only read a reply from you if the title assures me you have STUDIED these two books. The myth of overpopulation indeed! [https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/cyberjournal/2009-12/msg00000.html] I shall not even try to argue with you–you are too ignorant for my taste, my friend. Or how about Socrates’ Apology, to start with? I suggest you give up any intellectual pretensions, and go spend some time in a decent college. Or go back to the appropriately narrow (for you) field of computers. Another appropriate major, in your case, would be human ecology.The total tunnel vision of someone who appears otherwise intelligent tells me one thing–there is no hope for us. We’re just too closed-minded, or bribable, or dumb, or specialized, for words. So you did teach me something, after all. Thanks.—Moti NissaniCasilla de Correo 79(8430) El Bolsón, Rió NegroArgentinaTel.: (011 54) 2944 498355Correo Electrónico: •••@••.•••Pagina de Internet: http://www.is.wayne.edu/mnissani/
From: Robert GregoryDate: 26 December 2009 04:49:08 GMTTo: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>Subject: Re: escaping the matrix
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/Seems to me one fascinating topic is establishing exactly how much control over scientific findings is held by corporate powers that be – whether through deciding what will be targets of research, what will be funded, what findings are published, and what is “not allowed” by the powers that be. Much of the media and journalists are controlled, so too, are many (not all) scientists. Some don’t get promoted, some don’t get tenure, some don’t get grants, some don’t get published . . . etc .If scientific findings are easily manipulated by the powers that be . . the implications are significant.cheers – bob g
I first learned about the corruption of science way back in my undergraduate days at Stanford. A friend of mine was doing the computer programming for some research into the health effects of milk, funded by a dairy organization. One of the computer runs showed that milk is not good for certain segments of the population. He asked the researcher if he should re-run that data. The researcher responded, “Don’t bother, it won’t be included in the report”.
Government funding can be just as bad as corporate funding, as we can see from the warming propaganda. This is then made worse by the nature of academia, where most scientists are more interested in pushing their theories than in seeking truth, and where department politics can trump everything else. And on top of this is the media, where the Bilderberger agenda rules.
Nonetheless, there is lots of good research being done, even with controversial topics. Thanks to the Internet we can find it. The final hurdle, regarding science, is that people tend to dismiss the good research when it contradicts propaganda, as has become clear in our climate thread.
From: Thomas SchleyDate: 26 December 2009 05:03:01 GMTTo: <•••@••.•••>Subject: RE: escaping the matrix
Richard,I can see why you may feel somewhat disheartened when we fail to learn anything new from your efforts. As you know it’s part of taking the role of questioner and changer and teacher; there’s no guaranteed outcome.You ask for suggestions for new topics. I don’t have any right off the bat. I do have a reading suggestion though. Taylor Morris’ “Message from the Sparrows: Engaging Consciousness” is a thought-provoking story by a man who is trying to teach his college students how to think, how to question the given and to cut through the matrix. It is out of a Sufi context, but it’s presented in the real world, with learning problems the author tackled with his students in a small New Hampshire college. It was his answer of how to awaken others; perhaps it would provide you with some inspiration. The problems lead the reader to face the same challenges as the students, and shows us some ways to go forward from there. Great fun to read this book as well. One example from his teaching career: rather than sit in a classroom for a few months he led his class, his wife and kids on a walk from New Hampshire to Nova Scotia. Certainly a different kind of challenge than any of them were used to.For a short bio:
Actually, I get much more encouragement than discouragement from cyberjournal. Lots of people do learn things, and I learn a lot myself. The teaching that goes on here is mutual. I think of myself more as the community scribe than the community teacher. So many times, at critical junctures, someone has suggested just the book that I needed to move on to the next level of understanding. The Story of B was an example of that.
Morris’s book sounds very good. Please don’t apologize for the Sufi connection. Sufism is very much about the real world, and very much scientific. There is no dogma in Sufism, it’s all about discarding illusion – the science of the mind. If you want a real eye-opener, but tough reading, check out Idres Shah’s, Learning How to Learn.
From: Hélène CONNORDate: 26 December 2009 07:41:59 GMTTo: “Richard K. Moore” <•••@••.•••>Subject: re: escaping the matrix
Dear Richard,Thank you for your wishes and please accept mine for a good (better) 2010 year!Since you asked, I would suggest that you continue along the lines of “We the People”, to help people build their own capacity to deal with their needs in a globalising world and to help them get a sense of empowerment, bypassing the regular lines of power.Any fair outcome of the Copenhagen Conference was condemned to be a failure the minute we, the NGO/civil society were banned from the meetings (Wednesday morning). Climate and other world public goods are too important to be left to politicians, even if they are democratically elected. As for China…Peace, strength and joy!Helene
Thanks for bringing in We the People, and the imperative of bypassing the regular lines of enslavement. This, and the need for dialog, as Madeline mentioned, are what we really need to be talking about if we want to change anything.
China is indeed the big elephant in the room. It is at the center of geopolitics and the primary consideration behind US military adventurism. The media tells us: Don’t think about the elephant, think about ‘terrorism’. Space weapons have nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with China. Washington and the EU would love to split Russia off from China, but so far they aren’t making much progress. God help us if an appeaser comes in to replace Putin. Russia and China together are so far keeping the Bilderbergers in check.
As I’ve mentioned many time before, we are now in the pre-World War 1 scenario. At that time, Germany was overtaking Britain (the superpower of the day) economically and industrially, and so Britain planned and arranged World War 1, under the direction of the Rothschilds. Today, it is the US planning and arranging World War 3, again because China is eclipsing the current super power, and again under the direction of the Bilderberger / Rothschilds.
From: “M. Kolar”Date: 26 December 2009 14:11:13 GMTSubject: Season greetings
Have a happy winter solstice holidays (a.k.a. Christmas, Hanuka, Kwanzaa, …) and a very good year 2010. Let us hope that the mankind will finally wake up and start the transition to a truly democratic and sustainable zero-growth future.Miroslav
Your message is a very good one to wrap up this posting. Let’s hope indeed.
to be continued…
Moderator: •••@••.••• (comments welcome)