re2: Returning to the Garden, etc.


Richard Moore

To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rkm> The myth of human dominion and the birth of the Takers

Beautiful! No problem can be solved without being seen in
its proper context. We are finally putting all the pieces of
the puzzle together so we can actually SEE the problem and
its context. At last, the ways beyond this moment are before
us!  Hand in hand our newly informed visionaries and 
warriors,  artisans and healers, scholars and artists can
fruitfully alter what needs to be altered to bring real
change to the human world.

Teresa Hawkes
The Oracular Tree
Establish the habit of reverence!

P.S. Send a copy of this to Daniel Quinn through his website, if you haven't
already done so. It will warm him to see his vision spreading so fruitfully! He
has carried this vision bravely into the world alone for a long time....not so

From: "John Pozzi" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: dialog re: A change of vision: returning to the Garden
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:47:48 -0500

Hi Richard:

Capitalism is a carnivore, and you can't turn it into a
herbivore without killing it.

We can't kill it because it is us.
We can retire it and return to the garden.



Dear John,

Why do you say 'it is us'?

What is the difference between 'killing' and 'retiring'?


From: mango <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••, <mango list recipients>
Subject: Re: dialog re: A change of vision: returning to the Garden
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:29:24 +0000

Hello Richard et al,

A truly great post followed by some fascinating and profound

In reply to the sober piece by Jeff Jewel you say:-
    > The system just isn't fixable. Capitalism is a carnivore,
    and you can't turn it into a herbivore without killing it.
    Any attempt to reform it simply makes it function less
    effectively.  You'd get total economic collapse before you'd
    get any significant benefits of the kind we would all like
    to see.

Are we not now in the early stages of total economic
collapse anyway? It would seem to me that there is no time
like the present for putting all our ideas into practice;
careful, compassionate peaceful anarchism (or whatever
semiotic doesn't raise the hackles amongst all those
yearning for a more dignified existence for the planet and
its offspring). In England, fmd permitting, we are nearing
another election farce - the ideal time for direct action
from within the voting booths, by voting NOBODY - X: In the
States, there are serious rumblings towards eruption over
the president's legitimacy: The Zapatistas are in Mexico
City. Quebec is preparing for siege: Agrarian revolt is
underway in India etc etc ad inf. On the positive side,
ethical investment, co-ops, eco-villages, Schumacher thought
and other such buffers against collapse are all blossoming
and energising more people daily.

My view of that wonderful analogy of the man holding the
balloons is that we are ~each~ of us grasping onto as many
uplifting, connecting and practical memes as we are capable
of encompassing, for the greater eventual benefit of all the
world's Givers and those who wish to live simply, in peace.
The trick now is to wire our hearts and minds together into
a global practical demonstration of our real capabilities.

Tomorrow (20th) is the first World Day of Planetary
Consciousness [] -
the Dalai Lama's message
[] to
the Club of Budapest seems particularly apt in this context
for those who have experienced the power of concentrated
collective thought. He starts by saying:-

'Many of the world's problems and conflicts arise because we
have lost sight of the basic humanity that binds us all
together as a human family. We tend to forget that despite
the diversity of race, religion, ideology, and so forth,
people are equal in their basic wish for peace and
happiness. However, this will be achieved neither by merely
talking or thinking about it, nor by waiting for someone
else to do something about it. We each have to take
responsibility as best we can within our own sphere of
activity. As free human beings we can use our unique
intelligence to try to understand our  world and ourselves.'

It strikes me that so many people are in tune with this meme
now that tomorrow might just provoke an ongoing series of
momentous events. Do we have any other choice now but to
'live in interesting times' and do all we can to dismantle
the mechanisms that feed the greedy to the very best of our
energies and abilities? Accent on 'live'.

Thanks to you all for reviving me,


'One big plunge of the stock market could topple the
corporate interests that run things' - Gore Vidal

No taxation without representation! Why should we (organic
farmers) finance our own destruction?


Dear mango,

Thanks for your inspiring words.  Let me just comment on:
    > Are we not now in the early stages of total economic
    collapse anyway?

In one sense we are, and in another sense we are not.

That is, to any reasonable person, the world has long passed
the point of acceptability, livability, etc.  These are
_already 'dire times'.

But at the same time, the elite regime is in no danger of
losing control due to their own contradictions.  Population
problem?  - What problem? Millions shall die, as in Africa
today, so what?  All the more for those who remain.  Stock
market collapse and worldwide depression?  So what?  That
just gives the fat cats a chance to advance their holdings
in a bargain market.  For example, in the Great Depression
of the 1930s the banks took over vast agricultural lands and
that established the dominance of corporate agribusiness.


From: •••@••.•••
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:24:03 EST
Subject: Re: Announcing: new and improved cyberjournal website
To: •••@••.•••

very nice site richard- your world-view and your wisdom
continue to enrich my life.

From: •••@••.•••
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:15:06 EST
Subject: Re: Returning to the Garden, etc.
To: •••@••.•••

a good selection of comment an the right size posting to be
willing to read it all. blessings


Richard K Moore
Wexford, Ireland
Citizens for a Democratic Renaissance 
email: •••@••.••• 

    A community will evolve only when
    the people control their means of communication.
    - Frantz Fanon

    "One cannot separate economics, political science, and
    history. Politics is the control of the economy. History,
    when accurately and fully recorded, is that story. In most
    textbooks and classrooms, not only are these three fields of
    study separated, but they are further compartmentalized into
    separate subfields, obscuring the close interconnections
    between them" -- J.W. Smith, The World's Wasted Wealth 2,
    (Institute for Economic Democracy, 1994), p. 22.

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