Reader dialog re/this list and CPSR…


Richard Moore

To: •••@••.•••
Cc: Harry Hochheiser - CPSR <•••@••.•••>
    Jessica Cornette <•••@••.•••>

Dear readers,

Thanks for the many responses on this topic.  The general consensus is that
we should move, for everyone's comfort and to get full control over our
list.  I got more than one hosting offer, which was appreciated, but cadre
does have its own server which I'd prefer to use.

Despite the `decision consensus', there were some important matters of
principle raised which I believe should be presented to CPSR for
response... Harry?

In the meantime we'll be making preparations to host the list on our own
server, and we'll give it the name `•••@••.•••'.   We'll
move over all the subscriptions in bulk.

Jessica- In thousands of web archives all over the net, there are
subscription instructions for "•••@••.•••" -- how can we
intercept subscription requests in the future and route them to me to deal
with?  There is no way to "notify people".


From: "Clark Matthews" <•••@••.•••>
Organization: ParaNet Information Service (
To: •••@••.••• (Richard K. Moore)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998
Subject: Re: query to subscribers: our connection to CPSR
CC: •••@••.•••

Richard, I have to agree with Mr Hochheiser -- as a years-long supporter of
CPSR, I think they and EPIC and PI need to stick to their knitting in these
perilous times.

Clark- but then there is the question of what _is their knitting?  -rkm

From: RLYates429 <•••@••.•••>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998
To: •••@••.•••

Well, I personally am one for tradition, and for keeping what we have that
has worked well for so long.  I think that the list should continue it's
relationship with CPSR.

RL- this has pretty much been my sentiment, but this isn't enough to fight
over, imho -rkm

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998
To: •••@••.•••
From: <name withheld>
Subject: CPSR

        I would ask them if it is the politics which is causing them
difficulty. They have every right to be, because they will be taken for a
target if something happens if someone wants to punish someone.
                         ---< ... >---
        I find it ironic that 'computer professionals for social
responsibility' seems to be losing the 'for social responsibility' part.  I
would like to know more about the background of the letter personally.
                         ---< ... >---

xx- I think we do have the right to ask what the difficulty is about... is
this an official CPSR decision?  Is it simply the sentiments of some
staffers?  Might it be based on misunderstanding?  Why is this the _very
_first time CPSR has ever admitted there was any difficulty?  (In the
previous flap they _insisted the list shutoff was merely the result of an
internal misunderstanding)



Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998
Sender: Jeff Jewell <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: query to subscribers: our connection to CPSR

It would appear that moving off CPSR is inevitable -- unless they might
be persuaded that they should take a stand against the problems of
social justice [including democracy, sovereignty etc.] being compromised
under globalization -- with I.T. being deployed under the capitalist
system in ways that are instrumental to the process.

Now we would believe that they should recognize a responsibility in this
-- the most devastating change to human society since the advent of the
Industrial Age.  Further, it is noted that this new age, as yet unnamed
by history, is being called by some the Information Age -- reflecting
the key role and magnitude of the impact of I.T.

And it seems that Harry Hochheiser is personally sympathetic and very
cooperative.  Ultimately, of course, it must be decided by the CPSR
membership or leadership.

But I'd be inclined to ask them, in a non-confrontational way, if it was
not appropriate for further consideration.  To me the question is
whether an organization bearing the name Computer Professionals for
Social Responsibility should or could wash its hands of the most
profound transformation of human civilization -- as humankind is
undemocratically dragged into what might be called the Information Age
-- aided and abetted by I.T. and its profession.

  Jeff Jewell
  927 Hendecourt Place
  North Vancouver, B.C.
  Canada    V7K 2X5


Jeff- I agree, if this isn't part of CPSR's `knitting', why isn't it?...
Harry? (asked non-confrontationally)  -rkm

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998
Sender: Russell McOrmond <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: query to subscribers: our connection to CPSR
                         ---< ... >---
  CyberJournal tends to take corporations head-on in a way that a group
with a more "cooperative" (?? Don't like that word, but can't think of a
better right now) style might not be happy with.  I suspect it's best to
go your own way, but keep ties for those projects where you can help each
                         ---< ... >---
  Looking at CPSR's stuff on Intellectual Property, they seem to be a
"status quo" organization in that area, neither wanting increases in
restrictive ownership of ideas, nor wanting to help remove the boundaries
these restrictions create.

Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <>
                         ---< ... >---
Russell- Hmmm... could be a ring of truth to that...  -rkm

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998
Sender: •••@••.••• (Nalus Optic)
Subject: Re: query to subscribers: our connection to CPSR

        Well, I may be trippin' but it sounds like they are sort of
afrade of us.  Not like we could really hurt them or anything but they
may be thinking ,'Gee, some of our other users may not feel 'safe' with
such a group on CPSR...And what happens if we piss someone off and they
start a negative add campaine and what if....' yadda yadda yadda...
        Anywhoo, to get to the point, I think you should tell them thanks
for everything and move on to and be cool with that.


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Harry... is it fear?  -rkm

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998
Sender: valis <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: query to subscribers: our connection to CPSR

Harry Hochheiser, speaking for CPSR, in part:

 > You might be guessing where this is going, so I'll issue a promise.
 > CyberJournal will _not_ become homeless, & we will take no unilateral
 > action regarding the list.
 > However, there is a feeling in our community that the time may have
 > come for CPSR and CyberJournal to part ways.  Basically, the feeling
 > is that your content and efforts and those of CPSR are essentially
 > divergent.

Well, this is no more than what I asserted during the initial flap,
and I haven't been sorrier in a good while about being right.
For a group as much as for an individual, the answer is:
Harry H is being gracious enough short-term,
but don't hang around where you basically aren't wanted!

valis- I see your point... How was I supposed to  be "guessing where this
is going" _except by dis-believing everything CPSR said earlier??  -rkm

        What tangled webs we mortals weave,
        when first we practice to deceive.
                         - bard the great


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     Posted by: Richard K. Moore | PO Box 26, Wexford, Ireland
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