cj#486> re2: A wake-up call to libertarians


Richard Moore

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996
Sender: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: cj#483> re: A wake-up call to libertarians

  It seems to me that the essence of libertarianism is -- I want what I want
when I want it -- and fuck everything else.  Sort of reminds me of some
kind of ecconomic system...


Date: 29 Feb 96
From: Robert Ward <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: cj#478> A wake-up call to libertarians

>> The TN's _thrive_on lots of little countries <<

and on the bigger ones as well. A giant transnational regards Europe as one
whole and spreads its production Europewide. The great advantage for the
transnational is that it spreads its risks; the drawback for the national
governments that have an interest in regulating its activities is that the
transnational can start publicly pondering about switching production, so that
the national governments start competing with each other to offer better terms.
A still more interesting situation prevails with satellite broadcasting;
national governments can huff and puff about what they can and can't do, but
there's very little in practice they can do about it if the publishing company
has its base in another country.

Devolving power to lower levels ("back to the people") is a worthy intention but
it ain't addressing the real problem of economic power concentrated in a few

Robert Ward

Date:         Thu, 29 Feb 96
From: <•••@••.•••>
Subject:      TNCs

Frederic Hicks
Department of Anthropology
University of Louisville
I agree that transnationals like many little countries they can play off
against each other. But about the concentration of power:to paraphrase a
question so mebody (Napoleon, I think) asked about the Pope, How many
divisions does Exxon have? The answer may be, as many as the G7 countries
have. I believe TNCs find it useful to have the armed forces of the major
powers at their disposal. Otherwise, little countries like, say, Nicaragua or
Grenada, really could thumb their noses at them.

Fred Hicks
Internet: •••@••.•••

Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996
From: •••@••.••• (Larry Yates)
Subject: Re: A wake-up call to libertarians
Cc: •••@••.•••

>        Under these current conditions of power and change, your support
>for devolution serves only to accelerate the trend toward fascism /
>corporate-feudalism, and makes the realization of your utopia impossible.
>        You libertarians are being duped big time.  You're eager to drink
>your kool-aid, and you're helping to burn down the compound around all of

Richard --

You don't give us (libertarians or otherwise) any alternative. I doubt that
you would propose the re-creation of large anti-capitalist states, though
you and I might agree that the collapse of the Soviet Union is not in all
ways a positive event, especially for poorer nations.

It appears to me that the question is not whether one organizes locally or
globally -- either can be irrelevant and play into the Multinational Boys'
Clubs' hands. The question is whether one makes connections, has a longterm
strategy, and focusses on fundamentals. "Robust autonomous local
governments" can certainly play a role in our longterm fight, especially if
they are also connected to "robust autonomous" globally linked movements
for change, and based on "robust autonomous" organized communities, unions,

I can't speak for whichever libertarians you were trashing, but I do know
formerly migrated hippies who are definitely not irrelevant or "dissolved
away".  And I definitely think that in what is clearly an early stage of a
long fight against the Pale Rich Boys, none of us benefit from
indiscriminately trashing diverse forces that could be on our side.

I agree that  "To _actually_ move toward your utopia, you need to
understand what forces in the world prevent the viability of your vision,
and work on those forces first." I would rather hear about your analysis
along these lines than about your wide-ranging assertions that others are
"being duped".

Larry Yates

Larry Lamar Yates -- Social Justice Connections -- P.O. Box 4090 Arlington
VA 22204 -- 703 553 4440 -- working to support and strengthen social
justice activism in all communities



        I've posted lots of such analysis.  This particular piece was meant
to get some kind of response out of libertarians.  I'll send you one of the
analyses, as requested.



 Posted by Richard K. Moore  -  •••@••.•••  -  Wexford, Ireland
           (WWW or FTP) --> ftp://ftp.iol.ie/users/rkmoore