From: Robert GregoryDate: 3 March 2010 02:28:39 GMTTo: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>Subject: Re: Prognosis 2012 – re: solutions
Just a thought – link hierarchy with scale! Small local hierarchies may operate pretty well, it is when the scale increases and the aberant personality types that need control over others rise to the top and they become greedy. The shape of the hierarchy is important too – broad base is better than big and high peaks. Also, movement or change into and out of the peak or decision making role at the top is important. Vested interests get to the top and won’t yield when conditions change or over time so that others can rise up when and as appropriate.I think long ago I sent you a series of diagrams or drawings that illustrate this . . .Cheers – bob g
From: jeff pragerDate: 3 March 2010 04:14:07 GMTTo: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••>Subject: Re: Prognosis 2012 – re: solutions
I’m a 55 year old retired publisher so it might sound odd to say, “dude, you’re awesome,” but it’s difficult to think of much else that expresses my sentiments accurately.Peace,Jeff
From: Bruce DyerDate: 3 March 2010 09:10:59 GMTCc: •••@••.•••Subject: PROUT
Hi RichardIn case you’ve not come across it one of the significant contributions to thedirection humanity needs to choose, is Sarkar’s Progressive Utilisation Theory(PROUT)PROUT is a spiritually-based socio-economic theory that emphasises1) Guaranteed minimum requirements of life2) Increased purchasing capacity3) Decentralised planning and balanced economy4) Three-tier industrial system. The top tier includes key industries thatamount to natural monopolies such as energy, communications, rail, air travelthat are run by regional or national government. The bottom tier comprisessmall businesses of say up to 10 employees. In between would be cooperativesthat encompass housing, manufacturing, distribution, health, agriculture – infact across the board.5) Self-sufficient economic areas6) Economic democracy and non material emphasises.with regardsBruce DyerNew Zealand
From: “Brian Hill”Date: 3 March 2010 21:54:39 GMTTo: “‘Richard Moore'” <•••@••.•••>Subject: RE: Prognosis 2012 – re: solutions
good writings. Have you checked out the CDFI (community development financial institutions) movement that has been funding local sustainability since the Mondragon and Grameen examples? It is very widespread, solid and successful. Accion International is one of the most successful, maybe getting a little too big, but still very helpful for local communities. A major part of what the CDFI movement does is to teach sustainable business practices which too many local people have been ignorant of due to their being subjects of the capitalist empire.
yes, that is a good option, esp., including labor unions. I have wanted to start a credit union for years that would provide revolving loan funds, and the local community would eventually own the credit union. For years I have been saying that until communities own their own money, e.g., credit unions, revolving loan funds, self sufficient sustainability is be impossible.
From: Caspar DavisDate: 4 March 2010 00:22:13 GMTTo: •••@••.•••Subject: Re: Prognosis 2012 – re: solutions
Hi Richard,I think this is brilliant and very promising. I have forwarded it to my list and others with this introduction. I think you are right about Mondragon being the possible model/engine. I seem to be hearing more about it lately after hearing nothing for over 20 years (it is actually 54 years old), and the Transition Town movement seems to be catching on more quickly than I for one suspected that it would. M
My intro [excerpted -rkm]:
This is the sequel to a long recent post, Prognosis 2012, from Richard Moore.I consider this Solutions article to be of the greatest possible importance, and have given it five stars, my highest rating. I have not forwarded Richard’s Prognosis because it is so bleak…If you would like to read and/or comment on the Prognosis, you can do so at http://rkmdocs.blogspot.com/2010/02/prognosis-2012.htmlIn my view, this sequel is much more important and useful than the Prognosis. The remedy that Richard proposes is a fusion of most of the ideas and movements that I have found promising during the last 30 years or so, the part of my life that has been awake to such things. Over the years, I have studied each of these ideas and come away with the feeling that while each looks and sounds good, none has yet or probably could produce the necessary change.Here Richard describes the possibility of a fusion of these ideas that could be much greater than the sum of its parts:Caspar
I was struck by how when Captain Cook arrived at remote islands as the first European he found that these islands had a hierarchy very similar to Europe. Kings and priests, nobles, artisans and professionals, workers.. He hung out with the King, the officers hung out with the nobels, the nco’s with the merchants and the crew with the workers. And of course in tribal times it was ok to rape and pillage the tribe next door as the US v Them was still a feature of human organization. It’s not like hierarchy is unknown in the animal kingdom – so my dog tells me!
I still have a great deal of trouble with your dismissal of Global Warming, which is to me an observable fact, and closely related to the acidification of the oceans, which is a dire threat to all marine life — the great preponderance of the Earth’s biomass.The invention of carbon credits to me illustrates the ingenuity of Capitalists at transforming almost any issue into a profit/wealth concentration base (without of course doing anything to actually address the problem). People like that are certainly reprehensible and possibly psychotic.Using carbon credits as you suggest could only be done by the most extreme psychopaths, since they are obviously already rich beyond the wildest dreams of the Midases of the past and would gain nothing from it but the enjoyment of the infliction of untold suffering. If that is indeed their plan, and if the rest of humankind cannot stop them, it is pretty clear that we are indeed a failed experiment.
From: “Peter Meyer”Date: 4 March 2010 02:43:29 GMTTo: •••@••.•••Subject: Community & self-governance and the rest
Hi Richard,“Prognosis 2012” seems to have scared the bejeezus out ofa lot of people, which, of course, is not a bad thing.Your message “re solutions” is an antidote to the bleakness of it.I could publish this, beginning at “Community & self-governance”,or would you prefer to do further work on it?I doubt Global Research would pick it up, though I doubt youwould expect them to.Regards,Peter
From: “Hill Eshbach”Date: 4 March 2010 02:59:58 GMTTo: <•••@••.•••>Subject: Prognosis 2012 – comment
Hi Richard,I always enjoy reading your work! You say hierarchy is the problem and there was a time when there was no human hierarchy on earth. Therefore, it’s possible to have humans without hierarchy. Regrettably, however, that something was once the case, doesn’t prove that it could ever be the case again. For example, there was once 1950s America. Therefore, there can be another 1950s America? Or, once all the continents were all together forming a single land mass. Therefore, they can all be together again? The conclusions don’t follow from the premises. As long as some people are stronger than others (a given by Nature), why would some not impose their will on others (short of our all being saints)?Keep up the great work!All the best,Hill
From: “Vera Gottlieb”Date: 4 March 2010 15:17:13 GMTSubject: Re: Solutions (Re Prognosis 2012)
The process of participatory democracy – but WITHOUT ANY POLITICAL PARTIES – should be advanced much more rapidly. We need to stop globalization and start relying/promoting on our communities instead. And we need to question a lot, lot more and be very, very skeptical of the so-called ‘experts’ – they are the ones doing us in. Paid by…???vg