weekend dialog


Richard Moore

From: "Robert E. Reynolds" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Fourth Reich
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 06:21:55 -0500

Great commentary.  Most people don't realize that from the
very beginning the Bush administration has maintained that
anything they assert they can do to non-citizens they can do
to citizens as well.  Hamdi and Padilla are proof of this as
well as the US Citizen being held in Saudi Arabia at the
request of the US.  They defanged the court decision on Hamdi
and avoided a decision on Padilla when the Supreme Court said
the suit should have been filed in South Carolina not in New
York.  The irony there is that the government first moved
Padilla to NY, then when a Federal Judge acted, moved him to
South Carolina to a Naval prision to avoid judicial review. 
Thus our Supreme Court endorsed the administrations "contempt"
of the judicial process while avoiding making a decision on
his "enemy combatant" status. People also overlook that when
the administration loses a case or has it remanded they come
back with the same arguments of the right to torture, the
right of the president to unlimited war time powers, and the
right to hold indefinitely.

As you note the Patriot Acts and Clinton's Anti-terrorism Act
allow any attack against economic interests to be considered
an act of terrorism. Thus any environmental protest, and
picketing or demonstration, or any call for a boycott of a
company could be cited as having an unfavorable economic
impact on the nation and thus one that is an act of terrorism
or in support of the terrorists.

Bush never gives in on his basic demands.  He has resubmitted
the 25 judges that were not approved by the Senate and he has
used interim appointments to say "in your face" , I'm the
boss.   He acts as a dictator and with legal assertions that
as a president at war he has unlimited powers that can not be
reviewed.  That it is a rhetorical war like the "war on drugs"
matters not at all.

bob reynolds, orange park, fl

From: •••@••.•••
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:43:11 EST
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Fourth Reich
To: •••@••.•••

What do you call "Indian Reservations" but the same?

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:38:42 -0800
From: Janet McFarland <•••@••.•••>
To:  •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Fourth Reich

Hi Richard,

We saw it here in Oakland 1 1/2 years ago at the protest at
the docks of APL (?) where the police chased picketers down
the streets, firing on them, for several hours after they
started firing their wooden bullets at people.  I saw the
people's bruises on their backs and attended the council
meeting which was disrupted by demands that the issue be
discussed.  I tried to talk to a police officer, very gently,
to get him to admit they had gone too far, firing on Oakland's
citizens.  He just smiled a nasty little smile and rolled his
eyes with another officer. It was already policy.  Jerry Brown
authorized it.  There were going to be some civil suits but
I've never heard any outcome.  There was going to be an
investigation of the police tactics.  I've never heard any
outcome.  We don't have organizations that can force follow
through. Most everybody is pretty involved just getting by. 
Things are definitely going to get worse for quite a while. 
We gotta hold each other's hands tight and create grassroots
connections, such as you've been describing.


From: •••@••.•••
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:21:56 EST
Subject: Re: a URL for the Vialls article...
To: •••@••.•••

not sure on this one. there were lots of aftershocks, and
according to Australian sources, two weeks later thereafter
effects on the earth itself are still happening. people tend
to overestimate atomic bomb capacity and vastly underestimate
earth quake energies.

But given that caveat I'm open to any evil that happens are
part of the Bush agenda.


From: •••@••.•••
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:10:46 EST
Subject: Re: Robert Scheer: Does Al Qaeda exist?
To: •••@••.•••

    > Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?

Hi. Interestingly enough,  various people have written about
this very thing for awhile now. And now an ex CIA staffer is
saying don't catch Bin Laden for fear of big terror backlash-
sounds like spin to me. MLPolak

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:24:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Thom Hartmann: First They Came for the Terrorists...
To: •••@••.•••
From: Myan Baker <•••@••.•••>

Thanks for this excellent article. I'll pass it on & call
Boxer and Feinstein.

I wonder when people will connect the dots and realize that
America is running many, many African-American concentration
camps and has been doing so for years. The abominations
practiced in concentration camps on foreign soil are common
practice in the US. Talk to the folks in poor black
neighborhoods about the experiences of their family members. I
don't have the data at my fingertips and I'm busy today, but
the statistics on African-American incarceration rates and
sentencing patterns are just the tip of the racist iceberg
whose visible tip masquerades as our "criminal justice"
system. Privatized prisons are a big mistake. Racism is too.


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:26:47 -0800
From: Philip Feeley <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Thom Hartmann: First They Came for the Terrorists...
To: •••@••.•••
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en

Thanks for this.

I think people have protested places like Guantanamo Bay ever
since they started using it in this war. It has all been to no
avail. Perhaps there's not enough of us or not enough in the
right places. Why, for instance, has only one Supreme  Court
justice been saying what is obvious? They can't be removed for
dissenting, so perhaps the rest agree with the president. This
just means that despite there being millions of us who protest
there just aren't enough in the right places. What will it



Dear Philip,

It will take something other than protest.


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:26:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Private_MindSpace <•••@••.•••>
Reply-To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Davidson Loehr: "Living Under Fascism" - a sermon
To: •••@••.•••

Hi CJ: 

I want to thank you for sending me (generally-speaking and
most recently) such great essays to read and to keep for
future use!


From: •••@••.•••
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:43:29 EST
Subject: Re: Crossing the Rubicon: the case against Dick Cheney re/911
To: •••@••.•••

I have been studying this for over two years.

The SMOKING GUN is in the results of the SEC World wide
investigation of pre 9/11 insider trading.

To your knowledge has anyone filed a freedom of information
request for this report?


don't know - rkm

From: •••@••.•••
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:44:54 EST
Subject: Re: Crossing the Rubicon: the case against Dick Cheney re/911
To: •••@••.•••

Dear Richard,
This is the most ill I have felt since viewing the B.B.C.'s 5
hour documentary of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy."

What on earth can ordinary people do against such tyranny?  I
am shell shocked again.



They can find their identity as We the People.


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:30:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Sumner M Rosen <•••@••.•••>
Sender: •••@••.•••
To: •••@••.•••
cc: •••@••.•••, •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Crossing the Rubicon: the case against Dick Cheney re/911

Nothing more important then knowing whether this holds water;
if it does we can end this regime, if not we face dangers I
cannot match in my life except under shelling by German
artillery in WWII, and the 1962 missile crisis.




It certainly holds water. He presented only a small bit of the overwhelming 
evidence. So, how do we end the regime?


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 07:28:52 -0800
From: Darreld Rayner <•••@••.•••>
Subject: RE: Crossing the Rubicon: the case against Dick Cheney re/911
To: •••@••.•••
Importance: Normal
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)

I'm not much into this shit, but it does make sense to me...
Whether it be Dick Cheny, or Joe blow,  or Peter Pan. It
doesn't matter. The bottom line is, it was all about oil. A
home made Pearl Harbour. Let it happen, 9/11 that is, in turn
this gave the US and excuse to raid Iraq.. (For the second
time).. The old man, Bush, couldn't do it, so junior is giving
it a shot.. I call it unfinished business within the Bush

Iraq is a county rich with oil.. Everybody knows this. They
are also easy prey. No defence. Of course no weapons of mass
destruction either. They couldn't find any before the raid,
and still haven't found any.. "The proof is in the pudding."

Now it's the, "Get Bin Laden" game.. "He's a threat to the
free world" Free world?? Apparently I live in this free world
they talk of. I call it "Free for the taking".Our resources
that is.

In our area, Lake Cowichan, it used to be free.. Since the
multinationals have taken over our freedom is limited.. They
punch in roads, by forest land (or the gov. gives it to them),
and put up signs. "No trespassing, or else!!" It's like the
locals are being held hostage. Something like Iraq, only in a 
different way.. In Iraq they us bombs, in our area it's money.
In the end it's all about exploitation, and control.. "The
American way, or the highway."

At this time the American multinationals are looking at our
coast. (British Columbia) "Off Shore oil"... Apparently our
coast is rich with oil. The Fed. gov. has said drilling won't
happen, for 89% of the people are against it.. Yet exploration
is allowed.. "OHOH!!" What's that tell you.. Another bottom
line.. "They want our oil!!!" and they will get it.

Now the process begins. Exclusivity meetings, payoffs, secret
deals and the list goes on. In a democratic society if you ask
and don't receive, you sneak in through the back door. Using
bureaucrats to the hilt. If that don't work you just take it.
Like they did in Iraq.

Ever hear of our fish farms?? Off our BC coast??? Apparently,
I was told from a very reliable source,(This person also said
she would deny even telling me this, for personal reasons)
that fish farms aren't about the fish farms themselves, but
about oil exploration off our coasts. Apparently oil companies
are heavily invested in these farms.. Hmmmmm. You add it up. A
front, with a back door. If you know what I mean.. The
democratic, American, way..

Soooooooooooooooo, in ending.. The Americans are thirsty for
oil.. In Iraq they blow the hell out of them .. In Canada they
use money, for money is power. Either way it's the same bottom
line. Take care...

oh!! One more thing.. North Korea has weapons of mass
destruction. Yet Bush won't even go there. Why??? North Korea
says, Ya!! We have em!!! "Bring it on."


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Richard Moore (rkm)
Wexford, Ireland

"Escaping The Matrix - 
Global Transformation: 
WHY WE NEED IT, AND HOW WE CAN ACHIEVE IT ", somewhat current draft:
    "...the Patriot Act followed 9-11 as smoothly as the
      suspension of the Weimar constitution followed the
      Reichstag fire."  
      - Srdja Trifkovic

    There is not a problem with the system.
    The system is the problem.

    Faith in ourselves - not gods, ideologies, leaders, or programs.
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