Chris Thorman wrote:
Cool! Very well-thought-out! Agree with all the points. It definitely seems that virtually all evidence of civilizations prior to 10K BC is vanished — and whether that’s due to the devastating impact of ice ages, or the artifact-effacing lifestyles of unimaginably advanced civilizations, or some of each, is certainly an open question. Ockham’s razor would suggest the theory of obliteration by ice age as the simpler, and also probably sufficient, explanation.Bringing the “faith” angle — if anyone is going to go beyond the alternate hypothesis you suggested, they would necessarily have to have some reason to accept Yukteswar’s claims that as yet are beyond any scientific support — i.e. a reason to provisionally accept them as true because of inherent trust in the source. That question sums up my personal investigations of the past 7 years — or put more broadly: do such people exist who can know such things? I’ve come to provisionally accept that they can exist; also to provisionally accept that Yukteswar was one of those people. I say provisionally because I also believe it is possible to *know* for sure, but the one thing I know for sure is that I don’t know :-), so at this point I have belief — provisional acceptance — but not direct knowledge. I guess I’m a “gnostic” because I believe that such knowledge is achievable, and that there are ways to proceed to eventually achieve it (however many lifetimes it may require :-)).
Hi Chris,
What you say makes a lot of sense to me. From a scientific perspective, it seems to me there are two paths open to us, to investigate mystical claims. The first of course is to pursue direct knowledge, by engaging in appropriate practices (meditation, yoga, study under a guru/shaman, guided psychedelics, etc). The second, is to look for commonalities between the claims of different sage-sources around the world.
From the research I’ve done, here are some of things that seem to be in common:
– True reality cannot be expressed in words.
– Ordinary reality is a kind of dream state.
– The universe is an essentially friendly place.
– Consciousness pervades the universe.
– Some kind of cosmic purpose is served by ordinary reality.
rkm
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Jim Fadiman wrote:
good review, especially the last line.I’m usually suspect if there is one artifact that no one else thinks is as interesting. Crystal Skulls were the ones I spent time with, a number of years ago.
Hi Jim,
How old were the skulls? And I recall those pottery ‘whistles’ you shared in group. It was intriguing the way we explored their purpose by trying them out.
rkm
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Vera Bradova wrote:
Hi Richard. Could you point us to the documentation for the claim that a piece of woven cloth has been found preserved in resin, estimated millions of years old? I tried to find any hints via google, but nothing so far.Thanks! Best of luck with your sojourn in Switzerland.Vera
Hi Vera,
The reference for that particular item (I’ve added a link below) is given as:
Cremo, Michael A., “Forbidden Archeologist“, Atlantis Rising 72,
(November/December 2008), 19-21.
The age of the resin (amber) is given as at least 25 million years. There are many other examples also given, of finds that indicate very ancient civilizations. For me, the great pyramids around the world are pretty much evidence enough of ancient high civilizations. I do not believe that people would have chosen to build with hundred-ton blocks of granite if they had to haul them and lift them with ropes, rollers, and inclines – if indeed that would have even been possible.
rkm
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Sue Skidmore wrote:
Well, that could explain why things are so dismal now, or could it? Someone else was saying that we have a 26,000 year cycle. And if the gods that are in charge now, are the lesser gods, or possibly evil as some have speculated, then that is possibly a reason for the cultural and spiritual demise of our world. A psychic person I contacted said that we did not have hell before, but we have it now due to so many evil people dying and creating an evil spirit world.Happy Halloween!I know I wonder why I am here, because I am not making much of a difference now. Everyone seems to be in the ozone.Sue
Hi Sue,
According to Not in His Image, there are evil forces, and salvationism / Christianity is a psychic infection from their influence. A quote from a Gnostic, re/ Christians: “They hate who they are, and they love what they are not”.
The question of ‘why we are here’, each of us that is, is an intriguing one. In many indigenous cultures, a there is a vision-quest right-of-passage ritual that people experience as a transition to adulthood, seeking their purpose in life.
rkm
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Brian Hill wrote:
The early Hindu civilization was almost for sure the first, and it was the only one which equated men and women. Every civilization after the early vedic civilization was usurped by men, competition, hierarchy, materialism, dominance. We could learn much from them. But last I knew there were quite a few undug levels of Mohenyodaro that were still unknown. The development of agriculture also has much to teach our disintegrating class-based culture as we revitalize family-based culture, admit women to equality and regain a spiritual cosmology and respect for nature. I think its very important nowadays to think of class-based vs family-based cultures and our place in cultural evolution comes clearly into perspective.
Hi Brian,
The Vedas date back about 9,000 years. You seem to be quite sure there were no older civilizations. Why are you so sure? According to The Yugas, the Vedas were an attempt to preserve the knowledge of a much older culture.
As regards your claims about “Every civilization after the early vedic civilization”, what about Riane Eisler’s ‘Early European Civilizations’, and what about the Minoan civilization?
I certainly agree with you about the kind of cultural transformation we need to bring about. How to go about that is the big problem.
rkm
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Madeline Bruce wrote (re/ Knowledge, religion, beliefs, and wisdom):
Feelings and intuitions, which tend to be the province of women, are left out of this conversation. And it is those things that are the glue that hold families, relationships, and groups together. The voices of women can be sidelined, or hushed, or, more often, ignored, but something precious and vital is lost in that process. A certain sterility and vacuity and insensitivity results, and if that is pointed out – hostility. – Madeline Bruce, Nanaimo, B. C. Canada.
Hi Madeline,
What you say makes sense, but I am disturbed by the strong sense of ‘being a victim’ that pervades most of the messages you send me. I don’t think that serves you.
As for intuition, that plays a very big role in all of science. It is intuition that guides people (men and women alike) to insights, and reason plays only a supporting role.
rkm
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